Page 7 of 37 FirstFirst ... 3456789101117 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 547
  1. #91
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    14,295

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Lol, this is the gentlest deconstruction possible, a Cover your ass story and still there are complaints
    I wouldn't call it 'gentle', but it depends on what you find important about what was broken down about Frank.

  2. #92
    Spectacular Member Shockdingo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    ZombiePuck, Canada
    Posts
    183

    Default

    I remember being incredibly nervous when this book was first announced and kept waiting for word of mouth. I then heard a few interesting things that intrigued me and unfortunately, a lot of things I didn't like, then I heard about the ending yesterday. I'm glad I skipped out on this.

    I'm not a fan of shoving pre-destiny retcons in superhero origins (ASM movies Pete was genetically altered by his parents, Totems chose Spidey, etc) so the Hand, who he's run afoul of when teamed up with Daredevil all of a sudden being there since he was a kid and waiting for him is something I hate. Frank having a significant amount of murders BEFORE even serving, him and Maria's relationship woes at such a young age, I just didn't dig it. I'd rather this was an elseworlds tale or something, but oh well...

    I don't know what the future of Frank is and I don't want to see him continuing his tale with off-world adventures. I'm guessing he'll be shelved for a while and when Daredevil: Born Again shows up, at most, he may get some "Flashback mini's" like the current Venom Lethal Protector books that are new content, just set in the character's past.
    Voice Actor and Symbiote Fanatic -- Hoping for Anti-Venom's return daily.

  3. #93
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,392

    Default

    I thought the idea of the Hand recrutiting Frank had a lot of potential and I was willing to give it a chance. I didn't mind the logo change because I knew it would just be a gimic for the story. Even Maria coming back could have worked.

    This ending though, basically it takes every aspect of the Punisher and grinds it into the mud. It feels like the author set out with the task of making sure the Punisher could never work as a character again right down to calling out the ways later writers could retcon the story and shooting them down.

    This felt like a hatchet job.

    Although I will say one thing in it's favor. The panel were Frank was lying in a pool of his own blood with the caption, "War Journal: Final Entry. No. Damn. Regrets." was perfect and would have made a much better ending than what we got.

  4. #94
    Spectacular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    105

    Default

    I think I will pick it up eventually. Also sounds like the character is ready for another "Welcome Back Frank" reset.

  5. #95
    The Spirits of Vengeance K7P5V's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Chicago, Illinois
    Posts
    12,635

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by K7P5V View Post
    OMG! I LOVE that run!! Ostrander is a genius (IMHO)
    It was a very interesting read and Frank came off a lot more human and likable than he usually does, but you have to admit, it's not the kind of thing one looks for when they're looking for Punisher stories.
    Completely understandable. Quite unusual, indeed. I mean, it's not very often that you see Frank crack a smile during such dire situations...

    Last edited by K7P5V; 06-01-2023 at 01:18 PM. Reason: Added Clarification.

  6. #96
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    12,533

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    I wouldn't call it 'gentle', but it depends on what you find important about what was broken down about Frank.
    It's exceptionally gentle. A misdirection meant to protect Frank, Aaron jumping in front of a metaphorical bullet, etc.

    You say it's about giving Maria agency, but she never really existed as a character outside of Castle. She's not the Silver Age Batgirl taking a bullet to the spine, she's a prop alongside Uncle Ben, the Wayne, Bucky, etc (well, not Bucky anymore). What little character she might have is always related to Castle.

    The idea that we're supposed to be floored by her denouncing Castle is laughable. Deadpool vs. Punisher did the same years before, Ennis did much the same. To what degree varies, but modern Castle has always been treated as a powderkeg, just needing the right spark.

    This reminds me much of the Breaking Bad series finale. By the (near) end, Walter has killed over a dozen people, dissolved a kid's body in acid so that his parents will never know peace and spread a harmful drug far and wide. And when he's finally held to account, how does it happen?

    It's by his wife, and it's about the damage he's done to his family, and only that.

    Same here. Castle never faces any real logical consequences of his actions. As his influence on he real world becomes apparent, Castle is only more protected, banished to another world.

    At no point does the narrative examine how communities of color might feel about how the authorities being complicit in Castle's mass murder. About how ineffective a lone gunman would be on the war on crime. How less reputable have adopted his symbol and his rational.

    Writers struggle to acknowledge, and instead Castle is wrapped up like a newborn baby in fantasy, all to disassociate him with any of that. Evil ninja cult, super powers, ending up on an alien world.

    What happened is not deconstruction.

    It was a gutless dodge, Marvel playing the long game until Castle becomes more palatable. And that may be a long while indeed.

  7. #97
    Mighty Member InfamousBG's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Boston MA
    Posts
    1,668

    Default

    Again as a life long Punisher fan this was weak. Very very weak. I mean what is Marvel going to do with the character in the DD Born Again series? What if he gets his own series? What then?????

    If I was Marvel I would bring Frank back to the current state of America and have him show up at a capital attack or some dirty cops beating on someone that is not white. Maybe have Frank show up at a few KKK parties or show the proud boys how it is done. How about have Frank just go after all the wanna be "Punisher Pals" waving the logos and flags with blue or red. I would make it known if I was Marvel...WE own this logo and so do the real fans. Especially ones trying to use his logo or say its for police. Heck id have the Punisher start wearing a pink logo skull if it will get billy bob to take the logo down.

    When I start these threads (Punisher Appreciation) I usually say lets not get into the politics or all that jazz. This time is different. Change needs to happen. This is what the Nazis did. Look what happened to them...

    I am a Punisher fan for life.
    Last edited by InfamousBG; 06-01-2023 at 08:20 PM.
    "Life is too short so love the one you got cause you might get run over or you might get shot" - Sublime

  8. #98
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    14,295

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post

    It was a gutless dodge, Marvel playing the long game until Castle becomes more palatable. And that may be a long while indeed.
    I think you're utterly wrong headed here. Good grief.

  9. #99
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    12,533

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    I think you're utterly wrong headed here. Good grief.
    That it's a gutless dodge, or that it may be a while before Castle is palatable?

  10. #100
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,392

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Golden_Guardian View Post
    Also sounds like the character is ready for another "Welcome Back Frank" reset.
    "Got involved with some sort of demonic ninja cult. Not my finest moment. They made me see things that weren't real and remember things that didn't happen. They took away my symbol and brought back something that looked like my wife. Eventually it started to wear off and I fought myself back from some place weird. They got into my head, so I tracked them down and got into their heads with a .45 caliber. Then I tracked down the things that wore my wife's face and took it off her."

  11. #101
    The Spirits of Vengeance K7P5V's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Chicago, Illinois
    Posts
    12,635

    Default

    ^^^When it comes to "throwing shade", Ennis always gets my vote


  12. #102
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,667

    Default

    It was a very corporate decision to denounce Frank and yet also keep him in storage.

    Obviously the real life PR reason for why Frank’s been shelved didn’t exist at the time, but with hindsight they probably should have done this during Secret Empire, seeing as Hydra and the Hand are kissing cousins

  13. #103
    Astonishing Member your_name_here's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    2,253

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    No way that was gonna happen, and it's why I posted earlier about her survival. Maria got the agency Frank's origin story denied her, and her agency was a complete rejection of Frank and everything he stood for. That rejection, that moral condemnation, was the the entire point. It's a shame he felt he had to do even more retcons to make Frank even *more* awful to make it possible.
    Yeah. The point is that buried among the hand, ninjas, powers, flying etc when it could’ve been so much more grounded.

    Ruckas run is still my favourite. Nothing hit harder and summarised The Punisher for me that Frank telling Rachel “no one SHOULD be like me.”

  14. #104
    More eldritch than thou Venomous Mask's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,935

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    "Got involved with some sort of demonic ninja cult. Not my finest moment. They made me see things that weren't real and remember things that didn't happen. They took away my symbol and brought back something that looked like my wife. Eventually it started to wear off and I fought myself back from some place weird. They got into my head, so I tracked them down and got into their heads with a .45 caliber. Then I tracked down the things that wore my wife's face and took it off her."
    This is most definitely the way. Just have some comic book shenanigans reverse this stuff and treat it like how Marvel treats the story about Norman Osborn having kids with Gwen Stacy.
    "I should describe my known nature as tripartite, my interests consisting of three parallel and disassociated groups; a) love of the strange and the fantastic, b) love of abstract truth and scientific logic, c) love of the ancient and the permanent. Sundry combinations of these strains will probably account for my...odd tastes, and eccentricities."

  15. #105
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    12,533

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by your_name_here View Post
    Yeah. The point is that buried among the hand, ninjas, powers, flying etc when it could’ve been so much more grounded.

    Ruckas run is still my favourite. Nothing hit harder and summarised The Punisher for me that Frank telling Rachel “no one SHOULD be like me.”
    Yes, that's the issue with pretending that Punisher comics ever address the issues inherit with the concept.

    Frank said that.

    While still allowing Rachel to fight alongside him, even after she killed a police detective.

    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    It was a very corporate decision to denounce Frank and yet also keep him in storage.

    Obviously the real life PR reason for why Frank’s been shelved didn’t exist at the time, but with hindsight they probably should have done this during Secret Empire, seeing as Hydra and the Hand are kissing cousins
    Hydra and Hand are not kissing counsins.

    One is an organization of Nazis, thus making it far too relevant.

    The other is an evil ninja death cult, a comic book invention.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •