Bobby Drake: Iceman Appreciation 2023

[Odd Rödney]

happy new year!!! I personally think the joke is corny:////

Oh it definitely is, I just like corny I guess.

[NewMutant]

I personally think Lobdell didn't get enough credit. His down time bits were some of the best.

Especially considering he was their flagship writer during the era they were ultimately most popular.

[Nicoclaws]

Especially considering he was their flagship writer during the era they were ultimately most popular.

I still have to reread Lobdell, but I do think his run was particularly clever and good, and deprived of too many offensive tropes for the 90s. I heard very bad reviews of his DC books so maybe the X-editors of the time were really good in reining in the bad parts ?

[Odd Rödney]

I personally think Lobdell didn't get enough credit. His down time bits were some of the best.

100% He really does deserve some credit for how good he got that. I love some X-Men just chillin' in the mansion stuff, or playing baseball. It's delightful.

[BobbysWorld]

Bringing this over from the Firestar thread so as not to derail it with Bobby focus but....

Move over Spider-Man's Amazing Friends, its time for Iceman and His Fiery Friends, starring Bobby, Angelica, Johnny Storm and Pyros I and II. Also Lev from old X-Factor.

Magma's like its the way you all act like I'm the one fire-themed superhero no one's ever heard of.....

Bobby/Johnny friendship is an underrated element of the ultimate universe. Would love to see that carried over to 616.

Wanted to comment on this because I definitely agree that the Bobby/Johnny friendship is such a missed opportunity I wish they would explore in 616. Technically, Bobby and Johnny do have history being friends as teens in various First Class series, but how canon or not those particular stories are depends on who at Marvel you ask, and I don't think most modern writers are even familiar with those stories anyway.

But tbh back before the Franklin retcon, when Bobby showed up in a couple of Slott's Fantastic Four stories with a kind of petty rivalry with Johnny, I was actually hoping that Franklin being shared with the X-books might lead to more scenes of Bobby and Johnny interacting and developing more of a contemporary friendship. Like maybe the FF would be more comfortable with Franklin hanging out on Krakoa and all the focus mutants put on his being omega if one of them like Johnny was actually friends with an omega mutant he trusted to keep an eye out for Franklin whenever on Krakoa.

Seriously though, there's so many elements that can be tapped with Bobby and Johnny....there's definite precedent for making them a great comedic duo like the Ultimate Universe did, there are the First Class stories, the idea of Bobby acting as a kind of mentor for Franklin, the fact that both Bobby and Johnny have fairly complicated histories and entanglements with characters like Akihiro, or even just them relating to each other because they're contemporaries of each other who have the shared experience of being the youngest and most underestimated member of their respective teams back at a time when there weren't many superhero teams out there in general.

Not to mention that Johnny briefly dated Rogue, one of Bobby's best friends...

(Also, circling back to my frequent topic of axes Bobby has to grind with Xavier.....one of the earliest points of contention Bobby ever had with the Professor is he and Johnny Storm met and became friends in one of the very early issues of the original X-Men run....but after working well together to fight a supervillain and bonding over being young, overlooked members of their respective teams....Xavier sent Johnny packing and erased his memory of the entire encounter because the X-Men's identities were still secret and he didn't trust Johnny or the Fantastic Four to keep their secrets. Bobby was NOT pleased that the first and only other person he'd met that he could relate to was dismissed like that and doesn't even remember any of that happening now.)

[BobbysWorld]

Oh no, its Bobby and Johnny First Class nostalgia hours....

[PolarIceFire]

Relevant X-over post 1 of 2:

Simply... @ a loss for words, and...



in a state of EUPHORIA!

🖤🤍

🙏🤞😌

... Although it does make his [Iceman's] fixation and hardcore jealousy in regard to Polaris when she first showed up feel kind of weird in hindsight.

WHAT IF... 😉 you consider he wasn't jealous over Lorna...

BUT actually JEALOUS OF her❔❣️

FOOD... 😋 4 thought...

THINK... 🤔 about it. 🧐👌
👍😘

[PolarIceFire]

Relevant X-over post 2 of 2:

... it does make... [Iceman's] fixation...

YES, [his/their] FIXATI0N [on AleX/one another]... is also a key component [like the jealousy] that heavily factors & configures into my...
now eXploding [fan] development of retroactively redefining the...
infamous, storied FRIXI0N, which has eXisted... between them.

I have often thought that about Bobby.

I mean, he used to say he wanted to be with Lorna, but then would immediately fight with her and really got mad when Alex was mentioned or showed up. Of course, Alex lived there at the time and Bobby knew he was around, so why the mad? He prolly was in love with Alex the entire time, lol!

SO encouraged to see further concurrence on this ship, and how it makes such perfect sense that in all practicality, it's essentially a no-brainer. The added insight into what would make it work so well, shows the outstanding, organic plausibility it possesses by pure happenstance, 2 - THANK U!!

INDEED, that post from earlier today, REALLY GOT...

and I COULDN'T WAIT 2 get back & EXP0UND ABOUT IT MORE!!!! It doesn't feel forced or gimmicky in any way, and if handled properly -- i.e, w/nuanced care, seriousness, & understanding -- in my 🧠... {mind}, it has INSANE, OFF-the-CHAIN POTENTIAL!!!!

But I wanna -- and am gonna -- follow up on all this with a post in Iceman's thread, ASAP.

What I WILL say for now, re. where I'll be goin' w/THIS:

... later in that issue Havok and Angel are talking to each other and the artist(s) draws them very similar in...
appearance. ... getting mixed up.

𝐹𝓇𝑜𝓂 𝓉𝒽𝑒 𝓌𝒾𝓃𝑔𝓈 𝑜𝒻 𝒽𝒾𝓈 𝒷𝑒𝒶𝓊𝓉𝒾𝒻𝓊𝓁, 𝒜𝒮𝒫𝐼𝑅𝐼𝒩𝒢 𝒜𝓃𝑔𝑒𝓁...
ⓣⓞ ⓐ ⓛⓞⓞⓚ -⃝ⓐⓛⓘⓚⓔ ⓟⓔⓔⓡ,⃝ ⓦ/⃝ⓌⒶⓋⒺⓈ ⓞⓕ ⒸⒽⒶⓄⓈ!⃝

LIKE ️️🌈MOTHS 2 a ❤️💜💙FLAME!!!

I'm SO INSPIRED!🧐🤔😍

#MarvelsMidnighterandApollo... ONLY BETTER!! 😏😉

[PolarIceFire]

Okay, so I probably should've followed-up closer to when all this 1st formulated, and that initial enthusiasm was havin' a veritable snowball effect on ideas. Oh, well, live & learn... [to] strike while the iron's hot, as they say. I still stand soundly by the conceptualization, though, and what I see as its almost overt credibility.

We all know that his 1st crush was Warren, but what I purpose, is that it was also the beginnings of a PATTERN for Bobby Drake.

... from just 2 months ago: [fanart] Havok and Iceman teaming up!, @Reddit.com

Very nice, love the idea!

They would make a pretty cool duo!

It’s a team up I’ve been waiting for forever.

... they could be Marvel's version of DC's Midnighter & Apollo,
only y'know... younger, COOLER, and HOTTER, WAY MORE widely known,
and therefore... MUCH MORE in DEMAND!!!...

MANIFESTING! 🙏

The Iceman CLEARLY...

1. ARCHANGEL

Human TORCH (as recently mentioned above, by BW)
AleXXX/HAVOK (MVP, IMHO)
CannonBALLS
Pyro 2, TOO!!
Christian FROST



HAS A TYPE!!!

And while those early, awakening feelings manifested themselves in the form of sadness, from regret & shame, they mutated into an anger that adjusted to a newfound defiance & denial... during their [subconscious] transference to another, who triggered a similar -- if not the eXact same -- longing, by being that reliable reminder of close resemblance. Difference being, Warren -- who he pined for in hidden, sullen silence -- was somebody he looked up to & probably idolized somewhat, when he was younger.

Later on, after that had eXhausted itself, along comes AleX WHO... just so happens to embody a lot of the same qualities, beyond only his appearance. To process those raging, out-of-control urges returnin' THIS TIME, Bobby overcompensates by tryin' to bury his still secret desires & forcing the role of rival on an all-too-willing -- for his own, repressed reasons -- Havok! He would see Scott's younger brother, being of the same age, as a contemporary and/or equal. Therefore, Alexander Summers was destined to be unafforded any sort of reverence by Bobby, certainly not in the way he acquiesced it a bit more easily to his elder, O5 role models. In very [rom/sitcom] trope-like fashion, Iceman's actions could actually be interpreted as... FLIRTING! AKA, I really like you but I'm gonna fight with ya, 'cause I don't wanna admit it... not even to myself - ESPECIALLY, to MYSELF!!

As for Havok's part, from Lorna all the way through Nurse Annie & after, I see him as not so much wanting whoever Bobby's with -- and vice-versa -- as him [subconsciously] NOT WANTING... Bobby to be with anyone -- BUT HIM -- and again, vice versa. They have a history of SPOILING each other's perceived happiness in the past, when it hasn't involved one other.

[MexM]

Bringing this over from the Firestar thread so as not to derail it with Bobby focus but....

Wanted to comment on this because I definitely agree that the Bobby/Johnny friendship is such a missed opportunity I wish they would explore in 616. Technically, Bobby and Johnny do have history being friends as teens in various First Class series, but how canon or not those particular stories are depends on who at Marvel you ask, and I don't think most modern writers are even familiar with those stories anyway.

But tbh back before the Franklin retcon, when Bobby showed up in a couple of Slott's Fantastic Four stories with a kind of petty rivalry with Johnny, I was actually hoping that Franklin being shared with the X-books might lead to more scenes of Bobby and Johnny interacting and developing more of a contemporary friendship. Like maybe the FF would be more comfortable with Franklin hanging out on Krakoa and all the focus mutants put on his being omega if one of them like Johnny was actually friends with an omega mutant he trusted to keep an eye out for Franklin whenever on Krakoa.

Seriously though, there's so many elements that can be tapped with Bobby and Johnny....there's definite precedent for making them a great comedic duo like the Ultimate Universe did, there are the First Class stories, the idea of Bobby acting as a kind of mentor for Franklin, the fact that both Bobby and Johnny have fairly complicated histories and entanglements with characters like Akihiro, or even just them relating to each other because they're contemporaries of each other who have the shared experience of being the youngest and most underestimated member of their respective teams back at a time when there weren't many superhero teams out there in general.

Not to mention that Johnny briefly dated Rogue, one of Bobby's best friends...

(Also, circling back to my frequent topic of axes Bobby has to grind with Xavier.....one of the earliest points of contention Bobby ever had with the Professor is he and Johnny Storm met and became friends in one of the very early issues of the original X-Men run....but after working well together to fight a supervillain and bonding over being young, overlooked members of their respective teams....Xavier sent Johnny packing and erased his memory of the entire encounter because the X-Men's identities were still secret and he didn't trust Johnny or the Fantastic Four to keep their secrets. Bobby was NOT pleased that the first and only other person he'd met that he could relate to was dismissed like that and doesn't even remember any of that happening now.)

Oh no, its Bobby and Johnny First Class nostalgia hours....

Yeees so much this!! Looking at those panels always brings me nostalgia lol back when I was kid I loved pairing up Bobby and Johnny in videogames because y'know, ice and fire seems like a fun duo (and they even share some gameplay bonus in other games!). Then after reading about them and finding how similar their personalities and position in their teams are I ended up in even more love regarding the idea, so i went ahead and tried to look any comics that had them together and found about the First Class comics and it was indeed a joy to read through and through.

IIRC During the story they had a fallout despite their great friendship because Bobby saw Johnny flirting with Zelda, so could be also fun to explore that angle with all the revelations regarding Bobby since then. Now writers bounce between them kinda shitting on the other (X-Men vs FF or at first that FF issue regarding Bobby's membership) or being great buddies (Johnny showing up and composing a song for Bobby's birthday in his solo). 100% agreed that they deserve to have their relationship explored, and through Franklin was a great choice to do it. Hopefully there's ever a chance for them to be in a team together in the future like Uncanny Avengers or something.

[BobbysWorld]

Yeees so much this!! Looking at those panels always brings me nostalgia lol back when I was kid I loved pairing up Bobby and Johnny in videogames because y'know, ice and fire seems like a fun duo (and they even share some gameplay bonus in other games!). Then after reading about them and finding how similar their personalities and position in their teams are I ended up in even more love regarding the idea, so i went ahead and tried to look any comics that had them together and found about the First Class comics and it was indeed a joy to read through and through.

IIRC During the story they had a fallout despite their great friendship because Bobby saw Johnny flirting with Zelda, so could be also fun to explore that angle with all the revelations regarding Bobby since then. Now writers bounce between them kinda shitting on the other (X-Men vs FF or at first that FF issue regarding Bobby's membership) or being great buddies (Johnny showing up and composing a song for Bobby's birthday in his solo). 100% agreed that they deserve to have their relationship explored, and through Franklin was a great choice to do it. Hopefully there's ever a chance for them to be in a team together in the future like Uncanny Avengers or something.

Yeah, they did end up fighting about Zelda, Bobby of the 2005-2010 era didn't like getting upstaged by Johnny in front of girls, but like you said, that would be a really interesting idea to revisit and have them reflect on with today's characters. You could soft-retcon in a flashback focus on when they used to be closer as kids and then have Bobby ruefully reflect on how at the time, he pushed Johnny away out of jealousy that was all image-based since he didn't actually even want to be with the girls that found Johnny more uh, charming than him.

But yeah its also interesting - but annoying - how different their dynamic is based on who's writing them and where they appear. When Johnny guest stars in Bobby's stories, like when Sina Grace is writing, its like they're old friends or at least the superhero equivalent of social media buddies who have ongoing text threads that are all just silly memes they send to each other. But when Bobby shows up in Johnny's stories, its always about some kind of petty rivalry or old grudge. Would love to see more of these two in general, but specifically with writers of both the X-Men and FF being on the same page as to what the current view of their history and actual dynamic is, so its not constantly flip-flopping between 'we're each other's besties outside of our respective teams' and 'ugh I've always hated that guy, he's just the worst.'

(Not that there aren't people with that kind of constantly flip-flopping dynamic, where they can't seem to make up their minds about each other between one encounter and the next, just saying I personally would prefer a more consistent approach to them being friends).

[Nicoclaws]

Please don't mention flip-flopping, PolarIceFire is going to explode.

[BobbysWorld]

Please don't mention flip-flopping, PolarIceFire is going to explode.

Yeah, that one's on me. My bad.

[BobbysWorld]

Random thought, but you know what kinda is of more interest to me about Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends than just the focus on Firestar and Bobby as iconic friends? I wonder if the focus on that cartoon's nostalgia factor could be used to introduce a 616 version of Bobby's half-sister from that cartoon. Her name was Aurora Dante aka Lightwave, and she was a SHIELD agent and mutant with the power to basically do with light what Bobby does with ice, up to having a light-wave form she could turn into. Hence, y'know, her name.

Anyway, she was only ever in like one episode as far as I can recall, and she was Bobby's half-sister (can't remember if they had the same dad or mom). I honestly don't even remember if she was supposed to be older or younger than Bobby, but point is, with the recent death of Bobby's dad, they could do a classic family secrets kinda storyline where when Bobby goes through some of his dad's old things to help his mom out, he discovers his dad had a child from a previous relationship he'd never talked about - maybe because that kid was a mutant too. That could be a fairly streamlined way to introduce Rory into the comics.....and yeah, longlost X-Men siblings is a trope that's been done to death but its also a classic for a reason. And this would be waaaaay simpler than a lot of the other storylines that have been used to give long-time X-Men siblings no one has ever heard of before.

*Shrugs* Just a thought, but curious if anyone else remembers Lightwave and has any thoughts about seeing her make a 616 debut at some point. Especially if she's SHIELD affiliated or working for some kind of organization that would put her at direct odds with her newfound half-brother and his own loyalties, but without necessitating her being an actual antagonist or villain like so many X-siblings. And thematically, there's a lot that could be done with Bobby mourning his dad and the lack of closure he got with him after the infamously contentious relationship they had....only to turn around and find out in the wake of this that he has more family than he ever knew....but whether or not he'll end up any closer to them than he was with his dad - even with them both being mutants - is up in the air.

[Icefanatic]

Random thought, but you know what kinda is of more interest to me about Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends than just the focus on Firestar and Bobby as iconic friends? I wonder if the focus on that cartoon's nostalgia factor could be used to introduce a 616 version of Bobby's half-sister from that cartoon. Her name was Aurora Dante aka Lightwave, and she was a SHIELD agent and mutant with the power to basically do with light what Bobby does with ice, up to having a light-wave form she could turn into. Hence, y'know, her name.

Anyway, she was only ever in like one episode as far as I can recall, and she was Bobby's half-sister (can't remember if they had the same dad or mom). I honestly don't even remember if she was supposed to be older or younger than Bobby, but point is, with the recent death of Bobby's dad, they could do a classic family secrets kinda storyline where when Bobby goes through some of his dad's old things to help his mom out, he discovers his dad had a child from a previous relationship he'd never talked about - maybe because that kid was a mutant too. That could be a fairly streamlined way to introduce Rory into the comics.....and yeah, longlost X-Men siblings is a trope that's been done to death but its also a classic for a reason. And this would be waaaaay simpler than a lot of the other storylines that have been used to give long-time X-Men siblings no one has ever heard of before.

*Shrugs* Just a thought, but curious if anyone else remembers Lightwave and has any thoughts about seeing her make a 616 debut at some point. Especially if she's SHIELD affiliated or working for some kind of organization that would put her at direct odds with her newfound half-brother and his own loyalties, but without necessitating her being an actual antagonist or villain like so many X-siblings. And thematically, there's a lot that could be done with Bobby mourning his dad and the lack of closure he got with him after the infamously contentious relationship they had....only to turn around and find out in the wake of this that he has more family than he ever knew....but whether or not he'll end up any closer to them than he was with his dad - even with them both being mutants - is up in the air.

I've wanted Aurora Dante, aka Lightwave, added to the comics mythos for decades. On the show she was Bobby's younger half-sister by their shared mother. In the show, Bobby's parents hid his powers and referred to them as ’the family secret.‘ It could have provided the impetus for their marriage blowing up. For the comics I would prefer it be switched to them having a shared father. It just works better for obvious reasons.