I AM The X-Men - Cyclops Appreciation 2023

[TheDeadSpace]

I had a lot of gripes with Bendis' run but i feel like he was the last writer to really do Scott any justice as a character, when looking at Rosenberg, Hickman and Duggan I cant say I see "Scott" in the way that they write him, he feels empty as a character and when he doesn't he seems to be written OOC

Overall, I agree.

It's weird that I kind of miss Bendis at this point.

Currently, I have no idea what Duggan is doing with Scott. It feels all over the place.

Rosenberg's Scott at least felt like Scott, albeit the one from pre-Morrison time. Hickman's Scott was boring and devoid of personality and Duggan's borders on annoying too much for my liking while also feeling irrelevant

I think the biggest problem with Rosenberg's Cyclops was the continued self loathing and hate. Add in the questionable plot lines and character interactions, and his Scott went from okay to bad.

[R+R]

It's funny that the editorial wanted us to go against Cyclops during the Bendis run but now Duggan relives stuff from that era in his run because that's what might appeal to Cyke fans.

[JeffimusPrime]

I wasn't sure I understood Jean and Scott's talk in todays issue. Is Scott too human or not human enough? does he love too much or not enough? Is he supposed to want to be on the next x-men team or not? It's just left me a bit confused.

[TheDeadSpace]

It's funny that the editorial wanted us to go against Cyclops during the Bendis run but now Duggan relives stuff from that era in his run because that's what might appeal to Cyke fans.

It feels like an "attempt" to evoke that era Cyclops. It's not quite there.

I wasn't sure I understood Jean and Scott's talk in todays issue. Is Scott too human or not human enough? does he love too much or not enough? Is he supposed to want to be on the next x-men team or not? It's just left me a bit confused.

I'm just as confused. I'd hate to be Scott at the moment.

What's even weirder is that both of them seem to refer to humans in a odd way.

[R+R]

I liked that Scott and Jean had opposite thoughts today. Scott needs to become more independent of Jean. Some people say Jean needs to be free of Scott but he also needs to be free of her. Jean is getting a new solo book and Cyclops even though he's underused in the x-books, he's not getting anything, and there's a strong possibility he's being killed off at the Hellfire Gala.

[Braxxer]

I wasn't sure I understood Jean and Scott's talk in todays issue. Is Scott too human or not human enough? does he love too much or not enough? Is he supposed to want to be on the next x-men team or not? It's just left me a bit confused.

Their conversation was a mess. Honestly what they argued about.

[Neocide]

It made no sense honestly, I didn't even get what the whole thing with him not going to Arakki meant Giving up on staying on earth, Like Scott is the poster child for what all mutants would have done? I mean if that's what he's supposed to be this era, it hasn't come off that way and that whole interaction just feels like another Checkmark on their Fox Checklist of stupid ways the mutants F%#$ themselves over so Orchis beats them badly.

The writing is bad.

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

Currently, I have no idea what Duggan is doing with Scott. It feels all over the place.

Setting him up as the leader of the "Stay on Earth/Accept the Ugly Truth for What It Is/How Dare He Hurt the Feelings of the Almighty Waifu" faction, I guess?

I mean, hey, I get it. Plans obviously changed last year and Duggan had to come up with *something*. Still. The X-Office had over *three* years to build up *any* kind of tension between Scott/Jean and we ended up with last minute "ZOMG those poow wittle Broods!" drama. This is somehow worse than a Mystery Box that went nowhere, lol. Oh well.

EDIT: Really wishing an interviewer would have the guts to ask Duggan if he truly thinks Ripley is the Alien franchise's villain.

[Ouroboros-PhoeniX]

As already posted in the Jean thread:

I thinked a lot about the discussion between Jean and Scott. It seemed to be out of nowhere, but I wanted to give credit to Duggan and the x-writers, and to see it on the wider picture of their lives and their relationship, and I came to see it as a very good character-building, if we try to think to it from this perspective.

When Jean died, Scott was going through an identity crisis, cause of all the Apocalypse stuff. And we know all the things Scott got through since then, and what he became. Then Scott died. When they both came back to life, they found each other.

Then came Krakoa, a bright new beginning, full of possibilities, and both were engaged in this new status quo, and in building mutants' future. They embraced it, with all its opportunities, included their estendend family and their polyamorous relationships with Logan (and Emma?). And when the necessity of an X-Men team came to them, they engaged in it together, with all of themselves. It kept them closer then ever, in all the ways we saw in X-Men and the last year Hellfire Gala special. It was their project, their scope, their "child". It seemed to them to be on the same frequencies.

But the truth is that they never faced the fact that when they came back to life in the first place they were not anymore the same as when Jean died, in particular Scott. He went through too many things, the extinction years, AvX, the revolution, etc. And, as well as it could happen in real life when in a relationships the members are growing apart, this truth arrived not little by little but all in a sudden, when the two have to face a liminal situation. The Brood thing may seem a secondary thing, but it was not. It was the ethical moment where Jean and Scott had to face how different they growth, what they became.

Scott had to become the one who thinks like the "enemy", who do all what is needed to do to let his people survive. Jean since her resurrection was the kind of person who was capable to face world hate, and the more hateful being in the world (Cassandra Nova), with the tools of understanding, compassion, empathy, who wanted to believe in them to make the world better. The Brood situation forced them in this truth they didn't (want to?) face before, and made it undeniable. And brought to the apparent disconnected things that merged from the conversation in number 24, where, as it was already said, both of them are saying similar things, both of them are both in the right and the wrong, or better both of them are in their perspectives, that have their flaws and their strenghts. As it happens in real life.

And these perspectives are not in the same frequencies anymore. They can't be in the same goal anymore, and Jean saw it, before and better than Scott (and its all in-character with both). That's why she's quitting the group and their project, their "child". She's not leaving the X-Men as a concept, or once and forever. As she will say to Lorna just in the scene after, "once an X-Men...". She's only needing time and space to understand what is important, what remains to her after all this awareness, and she decided to take the chance to do it, in a brave, strong and independent way.

And she's not leaving Scott too, she's just letting him the chance to choose if he has the same needing, the same will, and to follow her, or if his project, his "child", is more important. She's not judging him, she's leaving him his choice, his freedom, but she doesn't intend to wait for him, to be dependent from him, in the path she's perceiving as the better for her.
This is how I arrived to see this conversation, and in this perspective it is a very strong one.

[Neocide]

As already posted in the Jean thread:

I thinked a lot about the discussion between Jean and Scott. It seemed to be out of nowhere, but I wanted to give credit to Duggan and the x-writers, and to see it on the wider picture of their lives and their relationship, and I came to see it as a very good character-building, if we try to think to it from this perspective.

When Jean died, Scott was going through an identity crisis, cause of all the Apocalypse stuff. And we know all the things Scott got through since then, and what he became. Then Scott died. When they both came back to life, they found each other.

Then came Krakoa, a bright new beginning, full of possibilities, and both were engaged in this new status quo, and in building mutants' future. They embraced it, with all its opportunities, included their estendend family and their polyamorous relationships with Logan (and Emma?). And when the necessity of an X-Men team came to them, they engaged in it together, with all of themselves. It kept them closer then ever, in all the ways we saw in X-Men and the last year Hellfire Gala special. It was their project, their scope, their "child". It seemed to them to be on the same frequencies.

But the truth is that they never faced the fact that when they came back to life in the first place they were not anymore the same as when Jean died, in particular Scott. He went through too many things, the extinction years, AvX, the revolution, etc. And, as well as it could happen in real life when in a relationships the members are growing apart, this truth arrived not little by little but all in a sudden, when the two have to face a liminal situation. The Brood thing may seem a secondary thing, but it was not. It was the ethical moment where Jean and Scott had to face how different they growth, what they became.

Scott had to become the one who thinks like the "enemy", who do all what is needed to do to let his people survive. Jean since her resurrection was the kind of person who was capable to face world hate, and the more hateful being in the world (Cassandra Nova), with the tools of understanding, compassion, empathy, who wanted to believe in them to make the world better. The Brood situation forced them in this truth they didn't (want to?) face before, and made it undeniable. And brought to the apparent disconnected things that merged from the conversation in number 24, where, as it was already said, both of them are saying similar things, both of them are both in the right and the wrong, or better both of them are in their perspectives, that have their flaws and their strenghts. As it happens in real life.

And these perspectives are not in the same frequencies anymore. They can't be in the same goal anymore, and Jean saw it, before and better than Scott (and its all in-character with both). That's why she's quitting the group and their project, their "child". She's not leaving the X-Men as a concept, or once and forever. As she will say to Lorna just in the scene after, "once an X-Men...". She's only needing time and space to understand what is important, what remains to her after all this awareness, and she decided to take the chance to do it, in a brave, strong and independent way.

And she's not leaving Scott too, she's just letting him the chance to choose if he has the same needing, the same will, and to follow her, or if his project, his "child", is more important. She's not judging him, she's leaving him his choice, his freedom, but she doesn't intend to wait for him, to be dependent from him, in the path she's perceiving as the better for her.
This is how I arrived to see this conversation, and in this perspective it is a very strong one.

Everything you said is correct 100% the sad thing is, we shouldn't have to do THIS much homework to connect the dots to their disagreement. It really shows how out of left field it's been. It's a setup for FoX imo

[Braxxer]

As already posted in the Jean thread:

I thinked a lot about the discussion between Jean and Scott. It seemed to be out of nowhere, but I wanted to give credit to Duggan and the x-writers, and to see it on the wider picture of their lives and their relationship, and I came to see it as a very good character-building, if we try to think to it from this perspective.

When Jean died, Scott was going through an identity crisis, cause of all the Apocalypse stuff. And we know all the things Scott got through since then, and what he became. Then Scott died. When they both came back to life, they found each other.

Then came Krakoa, a bright new beginning, full of possibilities, and both were engaged in this new status quo, and in building mutants' future. They embraced it, with all its opportunities, included their estendend family and their polyamorous relationships with Logan (and Emma?). And when the necessity of an X-Men team came to them, they engaged in it together, with all of themselves. It kept them closer then ever, in all the ways we saw in X-Men and the last year Hellfire Gala special. It was their project, their scope, their "child". It seemed to them to be on the same frequencies.

But the truth is that they never faced the fact that when they came back to life in the first place they were not anymore the same as when Jean died, in particular Scott. He went through too many things, the extinction years, AvX, the revolution, etc. And, as well as it could happen in real life when in a relationships the members are growing apart, this truth arrived not little by little but all in a sudden, when the two have to face a liminal situation. The Brood thing may seem a secondary thing, but it was not. It was the ethical moment where Jean and Scott had to face how different they growth, what they became.

Scott had to become the one who thinks like the "enemy", who do all what is needed to do to let his people survive. Jean since her resurrection was the kind of person who was capable to face world hate, and the more hateful being in the world (Cassandra Nova), with the tools of understanding, compassion, empathy, who wanted to believe in them to make the world better. The Brood situation forced them in this truth they didn't (want to?) face before, and made it undeniable. And brought to the apparent disconnected things that merged from the conversation in number 24, where, as it was already said, both of them are saying similar things, both of them are both in the right and the wrong, or better both of them are in their perspectives, that have their flaws and their strenghts. As it happens in real life.

And these perspectives are not in the same frequencies anymore. They can't be in the same goal anymore, and Jean saw it, before and better than Scott (and its all in-character with both). That's why she's quitting the group and their project, their "child". She's not leaving the X-Men as a concept, or once and forever. As she will say to Lorna just in the scene after, "once an X-Men...". She's only needing time and space to understand what is important, what remains to her after all this awareness, and she decided to take the chance to do it, in a brave, strong and independent way.

And she's not leaving Scott too, she's just letting him the chance to choose if he has the same needing, the same will, and to follow her, or if his project, his "child", is more important. She's not judging him, she's leaving him his choice, his freedom, but she doesn't intend to wait for him, to be dependent from him, in the path she's perceiving as the better for her.
This is how I arrived to see this conversation, and in this perspective it is a very strong one.

It’s almost 100% true but we forget about one thing. In Phoenix resurrection jean read Scott’s mind. She found out everything. On the other hand scott didn’t know what jean was doing after Phoenix brought her back but we were supposed to believe that during 6 months between end of age of xman and the beginning of hox/pox everyone talked with each other. I mean somehow magento stopped trying to kill Emma

[TheDeadSpace]

Everything you said is correct 100% the sad thing is, we shouldn't have to do THIS much homework to connect the dots to their disagreement. It really shows how out of left field it's been. It's a setup for FoX imo

I feel like it shows where the priorities are. Not the characters, but the upcoming story.

While I also see that some are interpreting the discussion to Scott and Jean in the best and most meaningful way they can, I can't help but wonder why this type of discussion between the characters is happening now? Jean has generally been an idealist while Scott pragmatic. I'm not sure how this discussion fits into the current moment especially with the personalities they've had up until now. To me, none of it seems in any way meaningful. It doesn't feel like we're doing homework, it feels like we're coming up with a question to an answer/view some fans may have wanted.

It’s almost 100% true but we forget about one thing. In Phoenix resurrection jean read Scott’s mind. She found out everything. On the other hand scott didn’t know what jean was doing after Phoenix brought her back but we were supposed to believe that during 6 months between end of age of xman and the beginning of hox/pox everyone talked with each other. I mean somehow magento stopped trying to kill Emma

I feel like Scott's development post resurrection is being completely ignored at this point, whether it was liked it or not.

Setting him up as the leader of the "Stay on Earth/Accept the Ugly Truth for What It Is/How Dare He Hurt the Feelings of the Almighty Waifu" faction, I guess?

I mean, hey, I get it. Plans obviously changed last year and Duggan had to come up with *something*. Still. The X-Office had over *three* years to build up *any* kind of tension between Scott/Jean and we ended up with last minute "ZOMG those poow wittle Broods!" drama. This is somehow worse than a Mystery Box that went nowhere, lol. Oh well.

EDIT: Really wishing an interviewer would have the guts to ask Duggan if he truly thinks Ripley is the Alien franchise's villain.

I'm not even sure the situation with the Brood even matters at this point.

[ExodusCloak]

Cyclops after his ressurection made no sense. It was a completely different character. He was reset to his 90s version.

[RAWRlrus]

It’s almost 100% true but we forget about one thing. In Phoenix resurrection jean read Scott’s mind. She found out everything. On the other hand scott didn’t know what jean was doing after Phoenix brought her back but we were supposed to believe that during 6 months between end of age of xman and the beginning of hox/pox everyone talked with each other. I mean somehow magento stopped trying to kill Emma

Honestly it feels like the only things canon from the beginning of AvX to the end of Rosenberg's Uncanny are deaths, resurrections/new mutants and the general idea of where characters were. Too many of the relationships do not really have a good explanation otherwise.
It makes sense in this way too as we'd have a Scott who still has the mindset from being a leader of Utopia and all the stuff that had happened to mutants since Jean's death in New X-Men not being on the same page as Jean who didn't experience any of that.

[TheDeadSpace]

Cyclops after his ressurection made no sense. It was a completely different character. He was reset to his 90s version.

I wasn't a big fan of how it was handled. That being said, I'm not sure that excuses its neglect in current storylines. Conveniently changing Scott's personality to fit the story is starting to make him seem more erratic than usual.

The character really needs some type of direction. Without it, he just seems to be whatever the story needs him to be.