Tim Drake: Robin, Red Robin, Appreciation 2023

[Astralabius]

I think it would help Tim if a writer could establish something interesting and unique that Tim wants for himself. Most of the time he seems kinda aimless. And no, I don't think that "all he wants is to help Batman" is enough. It might have been when he started out as Robin, but he should be a young adult by now and start to be his own man.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Treatment is maybe the wrong word, but he was hit pretty hard by Flashpoint, since he really lost almost his entire history. And he didn't got solo mini or even one shot set in the main continuity for about 10 years.

Is and was Robin, and held a solo for almost 200 issues, while most of the time even being a lead in a team book in parallel. A character like him should be popular enough for his solo to not almost drop out of the top 200 by issue #5.

I agree. With all the hype they were doing for his solo, you'd expect it to be doing better. TMNT the Last Ronin released the same week is doing MUCH better............

Yesss!!! I love Rossmo's art, but Čižmešija is gonna be awesome on this book!!!



Ram V's Carnage is pretty good. And a Spider-man title outselling Tim Drake? How surprising...

But Tim is a Batman title and a prominent name with the Robin brand so seeing Carnage and Gold Goblin outsell him.........

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I think it would help Tim if a writer could establish something interesting and unique that Tim wants for himself. Most of the time he seems kinda aimless. And no, I don't think that "all he wants is to help Batman" is enough. It might have been when he started out as Robin, but he should be a young adult by now and start to be his own man.

He needs his own Nightwing/Red hood era.

[Triniking1234]

The "Flashpoint ruined Tim" excuse is weird because him being a Batman character kept most of him intact. He still appeared regularly in the New 52 era until his "death" in Detective Comics. The only thing he was missing was a solo but not even Damian had a solo until DC You; it was only Dick and Barbara for the Bat-family.

[Aahz]

He needs his own Nightwing/Red hood era.

I think one major problem is that his transition to Red Robin was cut short (and kind of reverted) by Flashpoint.

For the other 3 Falshpoint was not such a major problem, and in Jason's case even an improvement.

- Damian styed mostly intact
- Dick would had likely anyway to start over as Nightwing after Bruce returned as Batman, Blüdhaven got nuked years before and his incarnation of Titans was anyway not doing that well
- Jason got rid of a lot of poor creative decisions from the post OYL era and got an ongoing book

On the other hand lost most of his history and character development and his solo book.

[Aahz]

The "Flashpoint ruined Tim" excuse is weird because him being a Batman character kept most of him intact. He still appeared regularly in the New 52 era until his "death" in Detective Comics. The only thing he was missing was a solo but not even Damian had a solo until DC You; it was only Dick and Barbara for the Bat-family.

Post Flash Point "Batman and Robin" was iirc almost a Damian solo.

[Astralabius]

Post Flash Point "Batman and Robin" was iirc almost a Damian solo.

???
How? Bruce was a lot in it too, plus Damian was dead after issue 17 and didn't come back until issue 30 something. And then the book was cancelled because Snyder gave Bruce amnesia in the main book.

[Aahz]

???
How? Bruce was a lot in it too, plus Damian was dead after issue 17 and didn't come back until issue 30 something. And then the book was cancelled because Snyder gave Bruce amnesia in the main book.

I might rember it wrong, but IIRC Damian was before his death often the main protagonist of the story.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

The "Flashpoint ruined Tim" excuse is weird because him being a Batman character kept most of him intact. He still appeared regularly in the New 52 era until his "death" in Detective Comics. The only thing he was missing was a solo but not even Damian had a solo until DC You; it was only Dick and Barbara for the Bat-family.

Creatively his generation fell into a slump because of the New 52 being a half-assed reboot and DC not knowing what to do with legacy characters.

They were around but where they done well is the concern.

I think one major problem is that his transition to Red Robin was cut short (and kind of reverted) by Flashpoint.

For the other 3 Falshpoint was not such a major problem, and in Jason's case even an improvement.

- Damian styed mostly intact
- Dick would had likely anyway to start over as Nightwing after Bruce returned as Batman, Blüdhaven got nuked years before and his incarnation of Titans was anyway not doing that well
- Jason got rid of a lot of poor creative decisions from the post OYL era and got an ongoing book

On the other hand lost most of his history and character development and his solo book.

I agree and I'm hoping Zdarsky gives him a new ID and purpose by the end of his run.

[KrustyKid]

The "Flashpoint ruined Tim" excuse is weird because him being a Batman character kept most of him intact. He still appeared regularly in the New 52 era until his "death" in Detective Comics. The only thing he was missing was a solo but not even Damian had a solo until DC You; it was only Dick and Barbara for the Bat-family.

Not really, Tim was only himself in name with the start of the New 52. He got completely dunked on. Only one who took it worse was Dick, but in his case he had a solo to build something new for himself.

Damian was fine for the most part, he didn't have much history so it didn't effect him as much. Jason was the one who benefitted the most; and we already know what happened with Steph and Cass.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

The "Flashpoint ruined Tim" excuse is weird because him being a Batman character kept most of him intact. He still appeared regularly in the New 52 era until his "death" in Detective Comics. The only thing he was missing was a solo but not even Damian had a solo until DC You; it was only Dick and Barbara for the Bat-family.

They completely changed his character. He wasn't the Tim who had parents when he became Robin. He wasn't the Tim who dealt with lying and sneaking around on his Dad. He wasn't the Tim who was intelligent, but still had self doubt and modesty. He lost the things that made him a good character. On top of that, he wasn't even Robin, was always "Red Robin" in New 52.

[Aahz]

Not really, Tim was only himself in name with the start of the New 52. He got completely dunked on. Only one who took it worse was Dick, but in his case he had a solo to build something new for himself.

I don't think Dick had it worse.

Ok he was not Batman anymore, but I think that would have happend anyway at somepoint.
And most of the other stuff he had allready lost before.

[Drako]

I agree and I'm hoping Zdarsky gives him a new ID and purpose by the end of his run.

Unless they kill his current book, that's not gonna happen. They went into great lengths to bring him back to the Robin persona, i doubt they will try to turn him into something else again.

I don't think Dick had it worse.

Ok he was not Batman anymore, but I think that would have happend anyway at somepoint.
And most of the other stuff he had allready lost before.

They cut his character in half and gave the other part to Tim and Jason. The only reason it looks like he didn't got it worse was because Kyle Higgins is not Scott Lobdell.

[Noodle]

They completely changed his character. He wasn't the Tim who had parents when he became Robin. He wasn't the Tim who dealt with lying and sneaking around on his Dad. He wasn't the Tim who was intelligent, but still had self doubt and modesty. He lost the things that made him a good character. On top of that, he wasn't even Robin, was always "Red Robin" in New 52.

He wasn't even Tim Drake. That was his witness relocation name. He didn't just lose the things that made him a good character. He lost his entire character.

[godisawesome]

Yeah, the New 52 wasn't really good to anyone in the Batfamily but Jason, and there more by chance, since Scott Lobdell found one of the few characters he did good with there. Babs had her return stumble and struggle a bit, Dick was maybe the epitome of "needlessly but uselessly moderately modified" before getting jobbed in the next event (and of course, we lost Dick Bats), while Damian was mostly okay but struggled with some timeline issues form the needless desire to make everyone young, Cass and Steph just had a holy war declared on mentioning them. even Batwomn went form a great start to a needless butchering of her creative team by editorial mandates against marriage.

Tim mostly only stood out because of the dichotomy of a clear attempt to make use of him in a major way clashing with how badly he was written as a character - the IP of Tim Drake was favored while the character was utterly screwed up. They wanted him to be "The Teen Titans Robin, central to the Young Justice line!" but everything about his writer about five issues in and editorial's desire to "help" him was horrifically bad.

I *still* say a cowl, some globetrotting, chess-mastering, and a dichotomy between being the "nice guy nebbish nerd" and "surprisingly ruthless and exploitive manipulator" would serve him better than anything else that's been done with him, and was a genuinely workable formula for a post-main-Robin career.

I think staying in Gotham, keeping a domino mask when Damian's around, and perpetually reverting to then staying at 16 has done him no favors.