Tim Drake: Robin, Red Robin, Appreciation 2023

[OBrianTallent]

No........

The latest issue tried to develop Bernard but it just made him come across as a huge Gary Stu, relies on the meta history of them being super close friends when they weren't, does a lot of info dump on stuff that was never shown before and a lot of show and don't tell and weak examples to prove said traits, and the issue makes Tim look incompetent as a hero.

Bernard is not cutting it as a character and I wonder if DC knows paying readers don't seem to like him that much.

I would like to think DC recognizes a lot isn't working with this series since the writer stated the book was cancelled due to low sales. However I would never put anything past DC's reasonings until they actually say it.

[Majesty]

I love.... love.. LOVE this Robin suit. Tim looks great imo!

[Frontier]

I love.... love.. LOVE this Robin suit. Tim looks great imo!

The one thing this show will probably be remembered for, positively, is the costume design.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

https://twitter.com/marcusto/status/1656722329878052869

[NOCTPHOENIX]

https://open.spotify.com/episode/3hm...f314049ee&nd=1

around 11 minutes-16 minutes and 29-31;30 minutes Tim's writer discusses her thought process behind the decision and why she made him bi as opposed to gay

for my thoughts I don't believe her when she says she loves and adores Stephanie and that she views their relationshop as "real" given how badly she treats Stephanie and their relationship and it seems pretty blatant he was labelled as bi because DC put their foot down. And using his 'friendship' with Bernard as evidence of coding is laughable as again Tim didn't like him that much and none of their interactions showed Tim viewing him as anything less than an annoying friend.

[Konja7]

https://open.spotify.com/episode/3hm...f314049ee&nd=1

around 11 minutes-16 minutes and 29-31;30 minutes Tim's writer discusses her thought process behind the decision and why she made him bi as opposed to gay

for my thoughts I don't believe her when she says she loves and adores Stephanie and that she views their relationshop as "real" given how badly she treats Stephanie and their relationship and it seems pretty blatant he was labelled as bi because DC put their foot down. And using his 'friendship' with Bernard as evidence of coding is laughable as again Tim didn't like him that much and none of their interactions showed Tim viewing him as anything less than an annoying friend.

I don't think Fitzmartin dislike Stephanie. She tries to show Stephanie in a positive light, even if the result feels forced.

Fitzmartin doesn't know how to be subtle. She will likely show Stephanie as homophobic (or, at least, hostile to Tim's relationship with Bernard) if she really wanted to make Stephanie look bad.


PS: I know Fitzmartin likes War Games, but she has mentioned she likes Stephanie in this story.

[godisawesome]

I think Fitzmartin is genuine in claiming what she likes and enjoyed as a reader - it's just not the "highlights" that most people think of when they talk about their favorite runs with the characters, and you can sort of tell that the way she engaged with the characters and books was also "unconventional."

She enjoyed a story that many Steph fans find abhorrent, and took an obscure supporting cast character from the Bill Willingham Robin run as Tim's same-sex crush. That's not impossible, simply not the expectation many have for what fans of Tim and Steph would have as their highlights and favorite characters.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

I don't think Fitzmartin dislike Stephanie. She tries to show Stephanie in a positive light, even if the result feels forced.

Fitzmartin doesn't know how to be subtle. She will likely show Stephanie as homophobic (or, at least, hostile to Tim's relationship with Bernard) if she really wanted to make Stephanie look bad.


PS: I know Fitzmartin likes War Games, but she has mentioned she likes Stephanie in this story.

True she doesn't know how to be subtle (hence accusing everyone who doesn't like Timber as bigot) but I think she also had to deal with the backlash from Steph fans in the pride special as well and there was the optic of it being a pride special so a negative reaction would be in poor test.

There are other ways to make people look bad as well. Hence Stephanie being over the top as cheerleader and prop for Timber. There is also how utterly useless she is as a hero in the Pride Special and issue 4 of Tim's hero. Like in the Pride Special Stephanie does nothing of substance to contribute to the investigation or defeating the enemy. All she does is notice movement in the building they are at (which someone else gave the location of) and this isn't due to any detective work or anything but by looking at the building and the only reason she was focused on it was because she was giving Tim the silent treatment. The other thing is just pick up the disc which is plain sight. She then loses the disc and has her life put in danger so Tim can save her and look good after being a jerk.

It also applies in Tim Drake Robin 4 she doesn't really seem to do anything substantial with the investigation or the fight. Like she doesn't really seem to find anything in the investigation or really shown doing it like Tim and Cass were, just at the meetup and in the fight she doesn't really do anything except be distressed and worried (like Cass points out there is no white disk for the animal, is seen investigating, etc). All she really does is tell Tim how smart he is.

So it seems clear that she dislikes Stephanie as a character/love interest/hero and is just being "polite" about it probably in response to the backlash. But it's also clear she dislikes Timsteph a lot hence throwing it under the bus and viewing it a 'settling'

She not only likes War Games but specifically likes what Stephanie grows through as she likes it when 'characters are sad and it is heartbreaking for Stephanie'........She also says it shows her as a strong woman in need of redemption......when yeah.

There is also the fact that she seems to lack self-awareness on the implications of her work so it could also be she THINKS she likes Stephanie but is unaware of how bad she is making her look.

But for Timsteph she clearly dislikes it and I wish she would just be upfront about it instead of pretending otherwise as it's not fair to fans of the pairing.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...160&height=762

So once again they keep throwing Timsteph under the bus.....

[Konja7]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...160&height=762

So once again they keep throwing Timsteph under the bus.....

Honestly, I don't think you need to be so sensitive every time Stephanie is mentioned.

This story is just trying to show how Tim feels. I've understand do you don't like it, but not everything is an attack on the ship.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Honestly, I don't think you need to be so sensitive every time Stephanie is mentioned.

This story is just trying to show how Tim feels. I've understand do you don't like it, but not everything is an attack on the ship.

I mean here is the thing as first of all the whole being defined as "Stephanie's boyfriend" thing doesn't make sense at all and in fact goes more so the otherway as many people voiced how they felt was being reduced to Tim's GF. But Tim was the "true victim" all along

Second of all it's framing it as if he was invested in the relationship to avoid examining himself which it looks like a barrier to his "true self" or like a closet to avoid and part of him was faking how invested he was in it. And there was also how throughout Rebirth she encouraged him many times to be true to himself and he even credited her with doing so and when wanting to learn more about himself he wanted her by his side as shown at the end of Rebirth and Bendis YJ.

It also makes Tim look two-faced as he tells Stephanie in the pride special he was avoiding her due to not knowing how to tell her and that she was "everything he wanted and more" but he was really avoiding her because she was a reminder of a past of letting other people define him and he was invested in the relationship on to avoid examining himslef on purpose......

[Felipe Silveira]

It's a one-way street, I don't know if this transformation of Tim's past into "him fooling himself" is beneficial to the character.
And yes it's an attack on the ship, DC is desperate to destroy that, remember when they started saying that Dick and Kory was a teenager thing.

[Frontier]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...160&height=762

So once again they keep throwing Timsteph under the bus.....

Tim being unfair to Steph. Never changes!

It really does come off more like he's gay than Bi at this point.

[Jackalope89]

It's a one-way street, I don't know if this transformation of Tim's past into "him fooling himself" is beneficial to the character.
And yes it's an attack on the ship, DC is desperate to destroy that, remember when they started saying that Dick and Kory was a teenager thing.

And yet, its still an incredibly popular ship.

But wow, this really is an attack on Steph and their past as a whole. Personally, Tim being bi, straight, gay, whatever, doesn't matter too much. But this is a fanfic (the kind that bashes one character because of the writer's head canon) level kind of messed up.

[yellow cyclone]

idk why anybody is still surprised

they have to acknowledge steph because there's too much history there/fans, but he's like never going to see women again lmao, it's bi-in name only and actually lowkey a diss to the term/bisexuals