Tim Drake: Robin, Red Robin, Appreciation 2023

[Konja7]

I know some people are big fans of what Zdarsky is doing right now, but at least to me it simply feels like Zdarsky is just retreating Grant Morrison's story. Bruce is lost in time/the multiverse and Tim tries to bring him back.
Okay. But you can't have Bruce constantly lost somewhere.
Tim needs a new role that is more sustainable.

It's possible Tim's story in Zdarsky will stop after June. If the new suit is permanent, this change could be the reason why Tim has so much relevance at the end.

It wouldn't be impossible this change to be planned for some months. DC tend to measure popularity with the pre-orders, while Tim's solo sales were bad since issue 1.

I don't doubt Tim being Zdarsky's favorite Robin is a reason for Tim's appearance in Batman, but I think it's possible DC has other plans for this.

[Restingvoice]

In general what constitutes low or bad sales?

if I remember correctly Hawkman and Aquaman were about 14-15K by the end of Rebirth
This is during the really low months for everyone where Red Hood was 18K and Nightwing Ric Grayson was 20-22K
They let them finish though
Rebirth Birds of Prey, long before the low months, if I'm not mistaken was cancelled at 18K

[Anthony W]

Since returning Tim to what used to make him appealing doesn't seem to be an option (not orphan, balancing hero and highschool life, being normal, helping Batman because Jason died and there was a lack of heroes in Gotham)

I think you're leaving something out...

[Astralabius]

I think you're leaving something out...

I'm not. You're a bit close minded, aren't you.

[thwhtGuardian]

I think you're leaving something out...

What would that be?

[Anthony W]

I'm not. You're a bit close minded, aren't you.

What would that be?

OP.jpg

I have to admit, this is a very lovely bush. I can see why everyone has chosen to spend so much time beating around it.

[staptik777]

OP.jpg

I have to admit, this is a very lovely bush. I can see why everyone has chosen to spend so much time beating around it.

[OBrianTallent]

OP.jpg

I have to admit, this is a very lovely bush. I can see why everyone has chosen to spend so much time beating around it.

Ok, so calling it out....if this board can be used as a subsect of the entire comics buying community...the main reason Tim Drake: Robin failed to garner sales has been because of the universally disliked characterization of the main character (whining, obsessed over someone, all tell no show of anything) and the horrendous art. VERY few people have commented on much concerning his sexuality outside of you and one or two others. It has literally been about the extremely poor choice of creative talent on the title. Megan Fitzmartin can not write comics, Riley Rossmo is not suited to mainstream comic art and Ricardo Ortez was the wrong artist to put on the main covers.
Tim being bisexual had nothing to do with the poor sales.

[Daedalus]

Ok, so calling it out....if this board can be used as a subsect of the entire comics buying community...the main reason Tim Drake: Robin failed to garner sales has been because of the universally disliked characterization of the main character (whining, obsessed over someone, all tell no show of anything) and the horrendous art. VERY few people have commented on much concerning his sexuality outside of you and one or two others. It has literally been about the extremely poor choice of creative talent on the title. Megan Fitzmartin can not write comics, Riley Rossmo is not suited to mainstream comic art and Ricardo Ortez was the wrong artist to put on the main covers.
Tim being bisexual had nothing to do with the poor sales.

I want to say that I agree with almost everything here, except that I can imagine a title that would fit Rossimo’s art - this just wasn’t it at all.

[scary harpy]

Ok, so calling it out....if this board can be used as a subsect of the entire comics buying community...the main reason Tim Drake: Robin failed to garner sales has been because of the universally disliked characterization of the main character (whining, obsessed over someone, all tell no show of anything) and the horrendous art. VERY few people have commented on much concerning his sexuality outside of you and one or two others. It has literally been about the extremely poor choice of creative talent on the title. Megan Fitzmartin can not write comics, Riley Rossmo is not suited to mainstream comic art and Ricardo Ortez was the wrong artist to put on the main covers.
Tim being bisexual had nothing to do with the poor sales.

I want to say that I agree with almost everything here, except that I can imagine a title that would fit Rossimo’s art - this just wasn’t it at all.

I'm glad there are some who know and speak the truth.

Out of simple curiosity, what comic would be a good fit for Fitzmartin, Rossmo and Ortez? (It certainly isn't this one.)

[thwhtGuardian]

OP.jpg

I have to admit, this is a very lovely bush. I can see why everyone has chosen to spend so much time beating around it.

If you can't say what you mean you're the one beating around the bush. It's pretty simple. Same for your claim of gaslighting.
I mean, why couch your opinion if it's one that was held by so many that it tanked the book? Surely if so many people shared your opinion it wouldn't be controversial to say plainly what you meant.

[OBrianTallent]

I'm glad there are some who know and speak the truth.

Out of simple curiosity, what comic would be a good fit for Fitzmartin, Rossmo and Ortez? (It certainly isn't this one.)

I honestly do not know. I hated the work he did on the Martian Manhunter maxi-series he did with Orlando (I bought it and read it, it was decent, but the art was not my taste.) I hated when he was used to fill in on the Justice League mini No Justice. The only title I can think of that his art might fit better would be Harley Quinn (which he was on for a run, but I dont care for the character so I didn't buy it either.) Ortez kind of falls in the same bout for me. I'm not a fan of anima or manga which his art is heavily influenced by it seems. Fitzmartin seems to have had a decent amount of success due to her tenure as a writer on Supernatural, but episodes are rarely written by a single person and more a team of people. To be fair, she did seem to do a decent job on Robin Eternal, the future state mini and even on some of the back-ups starring Tim. It wasn't until she got the series that she went off the rails with Tim's representation. It became far too out of character and over the top on EVERYTHING that had to do with him and Bernard. Her Dark Crisis mini series though was even worse on characterization. As said, I can't think of anything I would read by her. I was trying to think of what, if anything else she had done and everything has centered around Tim with the exception of a Wildstorm story in the anniversary special and a story in the Tales from Earth-6 special. So I honestly have nothing to weigh her bad work against.

[Rufio]

I honestly think Fitzmartin works great in small batches. Give her little one shots of no more than 3 or 4 issues of small stories that don’t dive too deep. But to be honest, I think she really shot herself in the foot with her treatment of Stephanie. I actually bought her Robin Eternal run, but I have no plans to continue to support this writer. I don’t care that Tim is bisexual. I just care how she treated the who thing and the characters involved.

Rossmo, has a very particular look which on some covers can be good. I really think it depends on the tone of the book. Or which characters are being used. Maybe something more surreal? I don’t think his art is bad, just very specific.

And I think Ortiz works great with younger characters. So something like Teen Titans, maybe?

[Noodle]

If you can't say what you mean you're the one beating around the bush. It's pretty simple. Same for your claim of gaslighting.
I mean, why couch your opinion if it's one that was held by so many that it tanked the book? Surely if so many people shared your opinion it wouldn't be controversial to say plainly what you meant.

People like that don't tend to say the quiet part out loud.

[Anthony W]

Ok, so calling it out....if this board can be used as a subsect of the entire comics buying community...

This is the problem. It can't. If it did we would have a very different comic industry. CBR by its very nature will always function as an outlier. It doesn't take into account the vast silent majority of comic fans some of whom are Tim Drake fans that balked the minute his orientation was changed, and wasn't going to follow the character no matter who was going to be on his book because he was now in their eyes a different character. When you make a change (yes, it was a change) that big you are literally cutting huge chunks of your fanbase off.

I don't know why that is so hard to understand.