Tim Drake: Robin, Red Robin, Appreciation 2023

[Jackalope89]

Personally, I think the main problem with how people have approached him is not quite getting his personality/“voice” right at the same time they get good adventure/villain concepts either; really, it feels a bit like those Adam Beechen or Bill Willingham runs, but with chaos about what “counts” for the character or not, or (for a comparison) how writers sort of struggled to figure out what personality to give to Jason pre-New 52.

To think they came so close to actually having an Outlaws group. But nope, all the character progress, gone, before Countdown was even over.

[OBrianTallent]

At this point, I dont think Tim will make a good show of it on his own. While, she might have been a fan, Fitzmartin did a fair amount of damage to Tim's brand and character. For Tim to be sustainable, he needs to be part of an ensemble for a bit. Young Justice as a show was popular for it's large cast and interesting characters, however as a comic it's most successful form was the YJ4...Tim, Kon, Cassie and Bart. Maybe give them another female or two...Arrowette, Secret, Empress...and a popular writer. Someone who actually puts thought into the characters. Something I dont think Bendis really did, at least not for Tim and the dreadful "Drake" costume, the name wasn't horrible but it was far from a step up like Nightwing or the Red Hood. Making Tim Blue Beetle would have been excellent at the time. Maybe Montoya needs to give up the Question mantle and Tim use it? Maybe...what ever it is, it needs to be a strong name with a strong suit to go with it. (It also needs an artist who is not quite as divisive as Rossmo.)

[Drako]

I already said this before, but DC should just put all this characters of Gotham in one book.

Call it Gotham Knights or whatever, put Tim, Duke, Steph, Jean-Paul, Helena and maybe some other characters. It's a team book without really being a team. Make Batman, Nightwing, Catwoman and Red Hood as guest appearences from time to time. Pick a good creator that doesn't have too much on their plate right now, like Jeremy Adams. Choose a good artist like Gleb Melnikov.

I doubt it would sell less than some books they are announcing right now like the Outsiders.

[Morgoth]

I've never understood their unwillingness to make an actual Bat-Family team book. I can't say I was a big fan of Tynion's Tec, but it was indeed a good, promising concept.

[skyvolt2000]

I've never understood their unwillingness to make an actual Bat-Family team book. I can't say I was a big fan of Tynion's Tec, but it was indeed a good, promising concept.

Because SOMEONE will find a reason to bytch about it.

They (generally someone who will NOT read the book anyway) will scream it won't sell. Well if DC tried separate books for all those folks. That same group will STILL bytch and take shots at certain characters mainly Harper, Duke & Tim.

Now if we are talking costs and page count.

Why can't you do like Archie??? Those digest now have new stories in them.

Current price for one is $8 for 192 pages.

Lets make the cast Tim, Duke, Steph, Cassandra, Huntress and Jean Paul. Each gets one 30 page story. A COMPLETE story.

Along with Jeremy Adams-have a few more writers-mainly those who do not have a lot of stuff at DC.

I would say those 6 will have at least 7 stories. That can be tossed into a trade spotlighting only them. So you get the person who only wants to read about them a trade.

Use those other times they are NOT in the book for Birds of Prey, Outsiders, Black Lightning, Batman Inc, Red Hood, Gotham Academy and whoever else.

In fact I would be SNEAKY.... use that book to introduce new folks. So if you have someone who is going to do something big in Batman-let them have a cameo in a Tim story.

That will at least help back issue market.

[Aahz]

I've never understood their unwillingness to make an actual Bat-Family team book. I can't say I was a big fan of Tynion's Tec, but it was indeed a good, promising concept.

I think if he didn't had Tim killed of to do this dumb Mr. Oz/Titans of Tomorrow thing, and had instead left Tim with Steph and Cass in the main plot, and maybe put some more effort into explaining what was and wasn't canon (maybe made updated Secret Origins for them) that could have worked out.

[Frontier]

I already said this before, but DC should just put all this characters of Gotham in one book.

Call it Gotham Knights or whatever, put Tim, Duke, Steph, Jean-Paul, Helena and maybe some other characters. It's a team book without really being a team. Make Batman, Nightwing, Catwoman and Red Hood as guest appearences from time to time. Pick a good creator that doesn't have too much on their plate right now, like Jeremy Adams. Choose a good artist like Gleb Melnikov.

I doubt it would sell less than some books they are announcing right now like the Outsiders.

They had like the perfect excuse with the game or even the show but they just made a tie-in comic and made you just hope they get stories in whatever anthology book they have coming out this year.

[godisawesome]

I wouldn’t be surprised if an assumption on editorial’s part is that *if* you find a quality writer for a character, you’re better off just immediately giving them that character and a specific run with them - especially since I think that modern editors have had some of their skill at recruiting and recognizing solid writers atrophy as the job has become more about marketing trends.

To think they came so close to actually having an Outlaws group. But nope, all the character progress, gone, before Countdown was even over.

I think the key problem was that they didn’t quite know how to do Jason as just a mellow 90’s anti-hero; I might utterly despise how Scott Lobdell wrote his Teen Titans characters, but his Jason was a wise mixture of 90’s Anti Hero MO with a restrained and relaxed POV usually considered antithetical to 90’s Anti-Heroes. He sort of wants too be able to mix some light immorality with a chill characterization as a hero - not a common DC formula at all. The Countdown writers and even Judd Winnick post-Under the Hood seemed to struggle with figuring out where he could be chill, how he could be a protagonist, or to just bite the bullet and make him an antagonist again. Even Morrison got too meta with him. A “Batman with a gun” character has a contradictory nature that sort of needs to embrace a kind of apathy towards his opponents rather than either a glee or worry, which Lobdell is clearly much more comfortable with than traditional DC writers.

In contrast, Tim sort of requires a DC-style care about his opponents, and he’s another DC characters who’s sort of deeply opposed to 90’s Anti-Hero stuff - and in general, he sort of requires a POV that is disciplined rather than chill or intense, which I don't think either Lobdell or (for comparison) Geoff Johns and Tynion ever really got.

[OBrianTallent]

I already said this before, but DC should just put all this characters of Gotham in one book.

Call it Gotham Knights or whatever, put Tim, Duke, Steph, Jean-Paul, Helena and maybe some other characters. It's a team book without really being a team. Make Batman, Nightwing, Catwoman and Red Hood as guest appearences from time to time. Pick a good creator that doesn't have too much on their plate right now, like Jeremy Adams. Choose a good artist like Gleb Melnikov.

I doubt it would sell less than some books they are announcing right now like the Outsiders.

I've never understood their unwillingness to make an actual Bat-Family team book. I can't say I was a big fan of Tynion's Tec, but it was indeed a good, promising concept.

This is something I have said for a long time. All the way back to We Are Robin, when it was announced I was hoping (from just knowing the title) that it would be about Dick, Jason, Tim, Damian and Steph with Babs and the others showing up from time to time. Shadow of the Bat is another title that could easily showcase the family Gotham Knights is another...so many options and they just...wont...do it.

[Aahz]

I think the key problem was that they didn’t quite know how to do Jason as just a mellow 90’s anti-hero; I might utterly despise how Scott Lobdell wrote his Teen Titans characters, but his Jason was a wise mixture of 90’s Anti Hero MO with a restrained and relaxed POV usually considered antithetical to 90’s Anti-Heroes. He sort of wants too be able to mix some light immorality with a chill characterization as a hero - not a common DC formula at all. The Countdown writers and even Judd Winnick post-Under the Hood seemed to struggle with figuring out where he could be chill, how he could be a protagonist, or to just bite the bullet and make him an antagonist again. Even Morrison got too meta with him. A “Batman with a gun” character has a contradictory nature that sort of needs to embrace a kind of apathy towards his opponents rather than either a glee or worry, which Lobdell is clearly much more comfortable with than traditional DC writers.

I really don't get what the problem of the DC writers with Jason is.

There are enough cases where they teamed Batman or other Batcharacters up with Anti-Heros (or Heros that don't follow Batmans moral code) like: Ghostmaker, Catwoman, Huntress, Katana, or even Damian in his early days.

But when Jason pops up in a Batfamily story he is 90% handled pretty terribly, not really allowed to do anything "anti heroic", and most of time just comic relief.

[witchboy]

A Bat-team book would make a lot of sense. I also see the appeal of a Bat anthology book, basically like the Bronze Age Batman Family book, with shorter stories featuring characters that don't have their own solo books.

[skyvolt2000]

I wouldn’t be surprised if an assumption on editorial’s part is that *if* you find a quality writer for a character, you’re better off just immediately giving them that character and a specific run with them - especially since I think that modern editors have had some of their skill at recruiting and recognizing solid writers atrophy as the job has become more about marketing trends.

Well part of the issue (beside pay and being PAID on time) is you can't just recruit a writer for just the comic. You have to recruit for that trade as well.

You have to get someone who can writer and can get the book noticed. And then deal with the antics of DC's editorial standards that have been an nightmare for folks. Especially if the book takes off.

[gohei_]

It seems like they are going the Compendium route with Tim's Robin run. A bit over 1000 pages, I wonder how sturdy these books are?

[Hypo]

It seems like they are going the Compendium route with Tim's Robin run. A bit over 1000 pages, I wonder how sturdy these books are?

[Frontier]

I am totally picking this up .