Tim Drake: Robin, Red Robin, Appreciation 2023

[Aahz]

Agree, but Best Sellers Rank: in Kindle Store can measure how a comic is doing overall and the Superhero Graphic Novels is the major category for most comic books.

Don't know, when ever I loock into one of those list, I have the feeling that there are some books missing that should be there, and some books in there that don't belong there.

And they also throw physical and digital books in the same category which makes it even harder to get a clear picture.

From my point of view those Amazon Rankings are not a really good indicator for how the books are doing.

[skyvolt2000]

Don't know, when ever I loock into one of those list, I have the feeling that there are some books missing that should be there, and some books in there that don't belong there.

And they also throw physical and digital books in the same category which makes it even harder to get a clear picture.

From my point of view those Amazon Rankings are not a really good indicator for how the books are doing.

Problem is it's the only place where every single book is available to be bought or read.

There is no bias, racism, sexism or whatever to stand in the way like it can and has been with comic book stores.

So no 125 comic book stores being used to represent 2000 stores. What if those 125 store won't order Tim's book because he's bisexual or the Milestone books because they star black people.

That is not good data yet so many want to swear by it. Especially when attacking certain demographic books.

So while it's not perfect-it at least shows some of the gatekeepers that some of these books do have an audience beyond the comic book store.

[Digifiend]

The best backups are ones that expand on the current run. A side story like Jim Gordon and his new ward over in Ram V's run is the ideal.

Jim has a ward? That would make the kid Barbara's foster sibling. How long until it gets referenced in Nightwing or Batgirls?

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Jim has a ward? That would make the kid Barbara's foster sibling. How long until it gets referenced in Nightwing or Batgirls?

No idea but he's not an official ward. Just a kid Gordon is looking after.

This is a cool Tim redesign I like.

[ZuLuLu]

Don't know, when ever I loock into one of those list, I have the feeling that there are some books missing that should be there, and some books in there that don't belong there.

And they also throw physical and digital books in the same category which makes it even harder to get a clear picture.

From my point of view those Amazon Rankings are not a really good indicator for how the books are doing.

I agree that Amazon sub-categories can be somewhat arbitrary, but I also think they can also be used to see how a comic may be doing outside comic book stores which ICv2 ranking relies on.

For instance, the following are the current ranking for some Bat-Books released on January 24, 2023:

Detective Comics (2016-) #1068
Best Sellers Rank: #38,722 in Kindle Store
#15 in One-Hour Comic & Graphic Novel Short Reads
#119 in Superhero Graphic Novels
#193 in Superhero Comics & Graphic Novels

Tim Drake: Robin (2022-) #5
Best Sellers Rank: #89,570 in Kindle Store
#220 in 45-Minute Comic & Graphic Novel Short Reads
#444 in Superhero Graphic Novels
#741 in Superhero Comics & Graphic Novels

Harley Quinn (2021-) #26
Best Sellers Rank: #168,876 in Kindle Store
#663 in 45-Minute Comic & Graphic Novel Short Reads
#1,125 in Superhero Graphic Novels
#2,001 in Superhero Comics & Graphic Novels

Punchline: The Gotham Game (2022-) #4
Best Sellers Rank: #185,601 in Kindle Store
#744 in 45-Minute Comic & Graphic Novel Short Reads
#1,265 in Superhero Graphic Novels
#2,269 in Superhero Comics & Graphic Novels


Catwoman (2018-) #51
Best Sellers Rank: #246,233 in Kindle Store
#1,094 in 45-Minute Comic & Graphic Novel Short Reads
#1,836 in Superhero Graphic Novels
#3,463 in Superhero Comics & Graphic Novels

As you can see when you look at the overall Best Sellers Rank and the two major comic book categories Superhero Graphic Novels and Superhero Comics & Graphic Novels Robin is performing a lot better than books like Catwoman and Harley Quinn on Amazon than it does when you look at the ICv2 ranking.

[CPSparkles]

Problem is it's the only place where every single book is available to be bought or read.

There is no bias, racism, sexism or whatever to stand in the way like it can and has been with comic book stores.

So no 125 comic book stores being used to represent 2000 stores. What if those 125 store won't order Tim's book because he's bisexual or the Milestone books because they star black people.

That is not good data yet so many want to swear by it. Especially when attacking certain demographic books.

So while it's not perfect-it at least shows some of the gatekeepers that some of these books do have an audience beyond the comic book store.

The Pride Special ranked high. Miles and Damian also started out high as did Jon Kent's solo.

So those 125 stores are ordering those titles. I see your point about Amazon being free from bias but that doesn't mean those 125 stores are biased.

ICV2 has a very small sample size but you just can't accuse the stores on comic hub of being racist/homophobic without proof simply because their data shows a book by a character you like flopped.

The book also isn't doing well on Amazon either. #5 being so low that it's numbers comparable to another bat adjecent title in it's 50+ issues is very bad.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

The Pride Special ranked high. Miles and Damian also started out high as did Jon Kent's solo.

So those 125 stores are ordering those titles. I see your point about Amazon being free from bias but that doesn't mean those 125 stores are biased.

ICV2 has a very small sample size but you just can't accuse the stores on comic hub of being racist/homophobic without proof simply because their data shows a book by a character you like flopped.

The book also isn't doing well on Amazon either. #5 being so low that it's numbers comparable to another bat adjecent title in it's 50+ issues is very bad.

Didn't the Pride Special rank pretty low like 117?

[Konja7]

Problem is it's the only place where every single book is available to be bought or read.

There is no bias, racism, sexism or whatever to stand in the way like it can and has been with comic book stores.

So no 125 comic book stores being used to represent 2000 stores. What if those 125 store won't order Tim's book because he's bisexual or the Milestone books because they star black people.

That is not good data yet so many want to swear by it. Especially when attacking certain demographic books.

So while it's not perfect-it at least shows some of the gatekeepers that some of these books do have an audience beyond the comic book store.

The main audience for DC Comics are the comic book stores. I know you don't like it, but they are likely who buy more comics to DC.

Maybe there is no bias, racism, sexism or whatever in Amazon rankings, but these aren't representative if they aren't the main or biggest audience.

[staptik777]

Didn't the Pride Special rank pretty low like 117?

Tim Drake Special yes

but DC Pride (2022) was 19

Marvel Pride Voices #1 failed to crack the Top 100. The Marvel Voices titles continue to be duds in the sales charts. What is interesting to note is that DC Comics had incredible success with their DC Pride 2022 #1 issue that slotted in at the number 19 spot. I am not sure why there is such a massive disparity between the two issues. It is possible that DC Comics has a far more generous return policy for unsold issues at local comic shops. But, at any rate, it is obvious that more readers were interested in what DC Comics was offering than Marvel Comics.

On the other hand, DC Pride Tim Drake Special #1 had a terrible sales ranking coming in at number 117. It is tough to figure out the gap between the Tim Drake title and the DC Pride 2022 #1 title. It is possible that enough readers were turned off by the retconning of Tim Drake’s character and that is what caused Tim Drake’s title to sell so poorly compared with DC Pride 2022 #1.

[Aahz]

Problem is it's the only place where every single book is available to be bought or read.

There is no bias, racism, sexism or whatever to stand in the way like it can and has been with comic book stores.

So no 125 comic book stores being used to represent 2000 stores. What if those 125 store won't order Tim's book because he's bisexual or the Milestone books because they star black people.

That is not good data yet so many want to swear by it. Especially when attacking certain demographic books.

So while it's not perfect-it at least shows some of the gatekeepers that some of these books do have an audience beyond the comic book store.

The Problem is that digital sales are also only a fraction of sales by comic stores, wich means Amazon sales are over all also not much more representative than 125 stores.

And gate keeping or not, if a book does ok on Amzon and poorly in stores, the overall sales are likely still poor. For Digtal sales to make up for poor physical sales, a book would have likely to sell around what the main Batman book is doing on Amazon.

And honestly I think about the only books that really had such a massive disparity between digital and physical sales were the digital first tie ins to Injustice and the Arkham games, that were usually among the top 5 sellers on comixology and had pretty weak physical sales.

[ZuLuLu]

Tim Drake Special yes

but DC Pride (2022) was 19

Tim Drake Special was a collection of stories from Batman: Urban Legends #4-6 and #10, with a brand-new story while DC: Pride was a collection of all-new stories, which also include an original Tim Drake story by Travis Moore.

Note that DC: Pride came out on June 7th while Marvel came out on June 22nd, that said at the time most people said that the DC anthology was the better book.

[sifighter]

Maybe it’s just been the solo series art but dang Tim is swole in the backup of Batman today! Makes him actually look like he could be near his 20’s.

[skyvolt2000]

The Problem is that digital sales are also only a fraction of sales by comic stores, wich means Amazon sales are over all also not much more representative than 125 stores.

And gate keeping or not, if a book does ok on Amzon and poorly in stores, the overall sales are likely still poor. For Digtal sales to make up for poor physical sales, a book would have likely to sell around what the main Batman book is doing on Amazon.

DC Comics can not MAKE a store and that includes Wal-Mart and Target stock on the shelf their books.

That is the million dollar problem.

Gatekeepers want to scream this and that proves no one wants the book because they have issues with WHO is on the cover. While ignore actual issues.

Example Beast Boys Loves Raven. Has STAYED a top 10 seller on Amazon the moment it was on preorder.

20 Targets are in my city and includes 11 other ones. That book was NEVER sold in a store.
30 Wal-Marts. Same story.
6 Half Price Books. Same story.
56 stores in a major city (8 million) did not stock this book and this has been the issue with every single DC Comics OGN.

So is Beast Boy Loves Raven a poor seller? Amazon says NO.

Tim Drake's first trade of this run comes out in September 26, 2023. Preorders have the trade among the top 2000 for Dc books (anyway).

[NOCTPHOENIX]

DC Comics can not MAKE a store and that includes Wal-Mart and Target stock on the shelf their books.

That is the million dollar problem.

Gatekeepers want to scream this and that proves no one wants the book because they have issues with WHO is on the cover. While ignore actual issues.

Example Beast Boys Loves Raven. Has STAYED a top 10 seller on Amazon the moment it was on preorder.

20 Targets are in my city and includes 11 other ones. That book was NEVER sold in a store.
30 Wal-Marts. Same story.
6 Half Price Books. Same story.
56 stores in a major city (8 million) did not stock this book and this has been the issue with every single DC Comics OGN.

So is Beast Boy Loves Raven a poor seller? Amazon says NO.

Tim Drake's first trade of this run comes out in September 26, 2023. Preorders have the trade among the top 2000 for Dc books (anyway).

top 2000 doesn't seem that impressive........

[Aahz]

Example Beast Boys Loves Raven. Has STAYED a top 10 seller on Amazon the moment it was on preorder.

But those Kid and YA OGNs are imo something complelty different those are imo mostly designed for sales in normal book stores, while floppy comics are primarily intended for the direct market. I don't really think you can compare those with the regular monthly comics.

And there are some floppy comics with low sales that do later well in trades, but those seem to be typically ones that are aimed at kids or teens, and I'm not sure if those are really going to be interested in this Tim Drake book.