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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noodle View Post
    She wasn't when she went by Orphan.
    That’s what’s wrong with the New 52. They erased a very important aspect of Cassandra. It was demeaning to have her go from Bruce’s daughter to Orphan. That name served as a representation for everything wrong with post-Flashpoint DC.

  2. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleWayne View Post
    Orphan made no sense because Cass is Bruce’s adopted daughter.
    Not in the reboot.

  3. #48
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Orphan was always a terrible codename that lasted far longer than it should have.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    Not in the reboot.
    You aren’t a Cass fan so you don’t understand the negative symbolism of her being called Orphan. It was a way to diminish the character and a giant middle finger to us post-Crisis Cass fans. Thankfully they restored her to Batgirl. And everything is canon now so she’s back to being Bruce’s daughter.

  5. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleWayne View Post
    You aren’t a Cass fan so you don’t understand the negative symbolism of her being called Orphan. It was a way to diminish the character and a giant middle finger to us post-Crisis Cass fans. Thankfully they restored her to Batgirl. And everything is canon now so she’s back to being Bruce’s daughter.
    Please don't insult me like that. I am a Cass fan and I do understand why fans hate her being called "Orphan". I was just clarifying the context of the name.

    I'm not against Tim's history as Robin. I just rather it was in the past and he moved on like Dick did.
    Last edited by the illustrious mr. kenway; 01-04-2023 at 04:50 PM.

  6. #51
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    I’m still that old fan of the Yost through Nicieza era of the Red Robin identity, with the cowl, the globe-trotting, and an all but explicit acknowledgement that he was 18 now (if I remember correctly, Nicieza mentioned he wanted to have an official birthday for either the characters 18th birthday or 19th, since the math actually worked out towards 19 more than 18.)

    I feel like that status quo was different enough to get him his own thing, his costume and ID were different enough to no longer be over-saturating the market with Damian, and yet still similar enough to and derived from his older stories (particularly the Dixon era) to still be familiar.

    I’d even argue the flaw of being a bit of a guilty control freak under Nicieza was a decent extrapolation of the character’s neuroticism, growing yet guilty comfort with deception, and strategic cunning under Dixon, and the globetrotting stuff was a nice throwback to his very first mini.
    Like action, adventure, rogues, and outlaws? Like anti-heroes, femme fatales, mysteries and thrillers?

    I wrote a book with them. Outlaw’s Shadow: A Sherwood Noir. Robin Hood’s evil counterpart, Guy of Gisbourne, is the main character. Feel free to give it a look: https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asi...E2PKBNJFH76GQP

  7. #52
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    He wouldn’t be moving on to something better, he would be moving on to a downgraded status. He would no longer have the iconic role of Robin. He would be a lesser, diminished character. Again I remind you of Drake and Red Robin. Ohhhh that ugly Red Robin costume. I will never get over that.

    Dick becoming Nightwing was different because he was the OG Robin and needed to step aside for Jason.

    Being Robin is what makes Tim great.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    I’m still that old fan of the Yost through Nicieza era of the Red Robin identity, with the cowl, the globe-trotting, and an all but explicit acknowledgement that he was 18 now (if I remember correctly, Nicieza mentioned he wanted to have an official birthday for either the characters 18th birthday or 19th, since the math actually worked out towards 19 more than 18.)

    I feel like that status quo was different enough to get him his own thing, his costume and ID were different enough to no longer be over-saturating the market with Damian, and yet still similar enough to and derived from his older stories (particularly the Dixon era) to still be familiar.

    I’d even argue the flaw of being a bit of a guilty control freak under Nicieza was a decent extrapolation of the character’s neuroticism, growing yet guilty comfort with deception, and strategic cunning under Dixon, and the globetrotting stuff was a nice throwback to his very first mini.
    How do you think it was different enough to seperate him from Damian or the other Robins?

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleWayne View Post
    Being Robin is what makes Tim great.
    The issue seems to be that he can't be that anymore (due to it belonging to Damien Wayne now) and, unlike other characters in that situation, the writers at DC haven't seemed to be unable to reinvent him for something new (like Jason Todd) or establish his own niche (like the Batgirls).
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    The issue seems to be that he can't be that anymore (due to it belonging to Damien Wayne now) and, unlike other characters in that situation, the writers at DC haven't seemed to be unable to reinvent him for something new (like Jason Todd) or establish his own niche (like the Batgirls).
    His current series is called Robin.

    What’s happened to the Batgirls is disgraceful. I was a huge, huge fan of both characters pre-Flashpoint but they are unreadable now. This is from someone loved Steph as Batgirl so much I bought her series three times (monthly issues, digital, and collected editions). That’s another reason why I don’t want Tim changed.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOCTPHOENIX View Post
    How do you think it was different enough to seperate him from Damian or the other Robins?
    Arguably the biggest formula difference was simply how frequently both Yost and Nicieza had him leave Gotham by himself and engage in international intrigue and conflict, but another one (especially under Niceiza) was making his MO become a sort of proactive chess-mastering of different supervillain groups and their logistical support.

    None of that is foreign to the rest of the Batfamily, mind you… but the frequency of it, and especially Tim going out and trying to find weaknesses in multiple organizations before they could strike more than three or more times in two years was different from Damian and Dick doing more conventional, react-to-a-crime storytelling at the time, which the the same basic formula most Batman-and-affiliate stories use.

    I just feel that making the formula for each arc and issue start with “Tim has a scheme to maneuver an opponent into a place of vulnerability or to steal away a criminal resource” is a significant niche not shared by others at the time,
    Like action, adventure, rogues, and outlaws? Like anti-heroes, femme fatales, mysteries and thrillers?

    I wrote a book with them. Outlaw’s Shadow: A Sherwood Noir. Robin Hood’s evil counterpart, Guy of Gisbourne, is the main character. Feel free to give it a look: https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asi...E2PKBNJFH76GQP

  12. #57

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    I liked Tynion giving him an acceptance letter from Ivy University. So I'd probably have him attend college and study under Ray Palmer. He doesn't become the next Atom but he does take more sci-fi hijinks.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleWayne View Post
    His current series is called Robin.
    It's a new direction (him on his own), so it remains to be seen if it works. Kinda seems like the new tact to make him unique is having him be the LGBTQ Robin. Thing is though, it kinda seems like new directions don't pan out for him and Damien took over as Batman's Robin (the thing Tim was created to be) and isn't going anywhere. Not sure if that makes any sense, but there it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by KyleWayne View Post
    What’s happened to the Batgirls is disgraceful. I was a huge, huge fan of both characters pre-Flashpoint but they are unreadable now.
    I love the current series, so, sorry, but I can't relate on this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by KyleWayne View Post
    This is from someone loved Steph as Batgirl so much I bought her series three times (monthly issues, digital, and collected editions).
    Wish they'd reprint the trades. Missed out on them and they're dang expensive on the secondhand market.

    Quote Originally Posted by KyleWayne View Post
    That’s another reason why I don’t want Tim changed.
    Come again?
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    It's a new direction (him on his own), so it remains to be seen if it works. Kinda seems like the new tact to make him unique is having him be the LGBTQ Robin. Thing is though, it kinda seems like new directions don't pan out for him and Damien took over as Batman's Robin (the thing Tim was created to be) and isn't going anywhere. Not sure if that makes any sense, but there it is.



    I love the current series, so, sorry, but I can't relate on this point.



    Wish they'd reprint the trades. Missed out on them and they're dang expensive on the secondhand market.



    Come again?
    They need to keep Tim as Robin and get rid of that Damian freak. He’s not a good character and should have been retconned as soon as Morrison left.

    All of Steph’s character development from her Batgirl series has been erased, and those writers don’t hold a candle to Bryan Q Miller.

    I love Tim but I hate the writer so I’m not reading his series.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleWayne View Post
    They need to keep Tim as Robin and get rid of that Damian freak. He’s not a good character and should have been retconned as soon as Morrison left.

    All of Steph’s character development from her Batgirl series has been erased, and those writers don’t hold a candle to Bryan Q Miller.

    I love Tim but I hate the writer so I’m not reading his series.
    Damian is too popular and has had it too long at this point and I don't think Tim getting it back will change much, but I hope they can produce good Tim and Steph comics.

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