It's too late for Tim to be Robin again. He had already made the first step towards his own identity, but then the reboot happened. DC should have thought about a new direction and name for him when the whole New 52 thing happened, but instead they erased all of his personality. Now he is the token gay Robin, other media is already adapting this and just like all bisexual characters these days, he will be stuck with a boyfriend from now on otherwise DC will just be cursed at and called homophobic. Anyway, this year will be interesting, they will either find a new direction for Tim or he will go back to doing nothing.
I think that, for whatever reason, he was still doing fine with the first half of Batman Inc running before the New 52, and that Jason and the Outlaws were enough of a ragtag group of ne’er-do-wells that it wouldn’t have impeded Tim either.
Some of that, I believe, was down to writing style and story construction - Tim tends to be the most preferred Robin for more character-driven, monologue-heavy “naturalistic” Batman storytelling (think Chuck Dixon, Paul Dini, Denny On’Neil), while Grant Morrison’s style is much less naturalistic and tends to be more zany and theatrical for characterization, and Scott Lobdell is a pretty heavy 90’s throwback with Jason that’s loud and hot-blooded/high-strung/obnoxious.
Lobdell couldn’t write Tim to save his life, nor the rest of the Titans characters he got - I tend to think that the smarter move from DC would have been to take Fabian Nicieza off the Legion book they gave him, and let him write the New 52 Teen Titans book, and leave Lobdell on RHATO.
Like action, adventure, rogues, and outlaws? Like anti-heroes, femme fatales, mysteries and thrillers?
I wrote a book with them. Outlaw’s Shadow: A Sherwood Noir. Robin Hood’s evil counterpart, Guy of Gisbourne, is the main character. Feel free to give it a look: https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asi...E2PKBNJFH76GQP
Right here is the big problem.
Are you saying that tim is only great because of Robin.
A mantle that was created and established by someone else. A mantle that's been built up for decades by other[s], that was already great before Tim was conceptualised.
Don't you see how that devalues the character of Tim?
I fear it's this line of thought that has prevented Tim from successfully growing and moving on.
This is why all other directions they've tried to stir the character in since Damian arrived failed/faced resistance.
Yes Tim was created to be Robin but that doesn't mean he can't be more than that. That doesn't mean the character can't grow beyond it's initial purpose.
Dick Grayson was also created to be just Robin and look how far the character has come.
Yes Robin is an Iconic mantle but why you would assume that moving on from Robin is a downgrade when every other male Robin who has graduated the role has gone on to establish themselves under hero ids that are today more popular than Robin is baffling.
Again smacks of devaluing Tim drake as a character/not having confidence that Tim as a character has what it takes to make it with out Robin.
Dick Grayson made it. Jason Todd made it. The only thing stopping Tim is that a large number of fans and TPTB don't seem to have faith that he can make it.
They seem to think that Being Robin is what makes Tim Drake great
FYI The statement " because he was the OG Robin and had to make way for Jason" makes zero sense.
It's pretty much the same thing except that in Dick's case it was riskier. An up hill battle since it was unprecedented and Dick was giving up a mantle he created and established.
Tim was great as Robin once upon a time but that wasn't what made him great.
I enjoyed Tim more in his Red Robin run.
Last edited by dietrich; 01-05-2023 at 08:29 AM.
Thinking about that, I do see one important difference, and that's that DC has good representation for lesbians and bi women dating other women. We have Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn, both very bi but with a lot of focus on their relationship, and Batwoman who is gay and has had an active love life.
DC really only has Midnighter and Apollo, who've gone through long periods where they aren't used much. Obsidian's boyfriend is barely ever seen, Alan Scott has only just come out recently. The previous Earth 2 Alan's boyfriend died in his first appearance. Bunker was what people say to do, create a new character, but a few years later he's nearly disappeared.
I think if people are more defensive about wanting to see relationships with two men it's because they're underrepresented. Until Jon and Tim came out queer male representation at DC was pretty poor. Even now with Jon and Tim out I don't think their relationships are all that great because their love interests aren't interesting characters on their own right. While characters like Steve Trevor, Wonder Woman or more obviously Selina Kyle have fan bases and can carry the odd one shot or mini (or with Selina an ongoing title) I can't see Jay or Bernard being able to do that.
That is actually not true, depending on where you look, you will find many people criticizing DC for making certain characters bisexual but never giving them a relevant partner of the same sex, however because their most popular relationship is with someone of the opposite gender, you won't find fans complaining about it. In fact, casual fans aren't even aware these characters are bisexual unlike with Constantine, where even casuals are aware of his sexuality. In my opinion, not every bisexual character has to be in a meaningful relationship with both genders because there are many of us that prefer one gender over the other, but when a big company like DC makes one of their most popular characters bisexual, you kind of hope to see it in some way and not just in a throw away comment, if it's mentioned at all.
It definitely is, and it's not a surprise because the only reason DC made him bisexual is to make him stand out from the other Robins, so of course they would fast-forward to him having a "meaningful" relationship with someone of the same gender. It's why I disliked his coming-out, it was lazy, and no effort was put into it. I don't think we will never see him with a woman in comics again, but I highly doubt he will have a long-lasting relationship with one ever again. The Titans and the webtoon (as far as I'm aware of) have already set him up with his boyfriend. Also, don't get me wrong, as someone who is bisexual myself, I'm always open to more bi characters, but I absolutely despise it when I can tell how little effort was put into it, which is why I still hope Tim will get a proper writer and can reboot his whole coming-out.