Tim Drake: Robin, Red Robin, Appreciation 2023

[NOCTPHOENIX]

And a few of those times they referenced their old relationship Tim was involved with or interested in someone else. That's not "being together." Just because they reference two character's history doesn't make them a couple.

So, yes, they were apart more than they were together

If I'm being generous then They were together for six+years from 1998-2004, 5+years from Rebirth, so that's 11 in total. She was dead from 2004-2008 and Batgirl was 2009-2011, but 5 years not new 52, so 11 years apart. So it's roughly equal.

And those instance wasn't referencing their old relationship, it was clear they were still in love with each other, and Tim even said it at the end of the Robin 1993 series.

[Noodle]

If I'm being generous then They were together for six+years from 1998-2004, 5+years from Rebirth, so that's 11 in total. She was dead from 2004-2008 and Batgirl was 2009-2011, but 5 years not new 52, so 11 years apart. So it's roughly equal.

And those instance wasn't referencing their old relationship, it was clear they were still in love with each other, and Tim even said it at the end of the Robin 1993 series.

They also weren't together the entire time post-Rebirth. For a decent chunk of that Detective Comics run Tim was "dead."

[ayanestar]

The Batfamily is known for their will they or won't they couples.

Bruce and Selina.

Dick and Babs.

Jason and Artemis.

Tim and Stephanie.

Neither Jason and Artemis nor Tim and Stephanie are relevant enough for DC to invest into them outside of comics. If they want to push Tim with a new love interest, it isn't too late. In fact, I think the recent fan obsession with Steph is rather questionable. This is why I'm always careful when criticizing Bernard because a lot of Tim's so-called fans don't really care about his relationship, they only care about him having a girlfriend and let's be for real, Tim's problem isn't who he is dating, it's the lack of direction, but of course it's easier for fans to blame everything on his sexuality.

[OBrianTallent]

We don't know if the backups in Batman will be a regular thing for Tim. It's possible he stops to appear there after the current arc.

The backups in Batman has been used to promote other characters or runs. So, I really doubt DC want to mantain Tim in that place when he doesn't even have book.

I wasn't implying that they were continuing, simply that it might be the best place for Tim's story to continue for the time being to put distance between Tim and the mess that is his current series.

[WebLurker]

Obviously I can only speak for myself, but… yeah, I do. (And I say that as someone who’s not opposed to Tim being bi… but at the same time, realistically, no one’s displacing Steph from the “yeah, these characters will be together eventually” post.)

Fair enough. I'm not personally convinced that Steph couldn't be replaced by another character as Tim's "one true love," given that I'm not sure the relationship is "mainstream" enough or enough of a defining element to be irreplaceable (unlike, say, Superman/Lois Lane, or even Batman/Catwoman, to keep things in the Bat-Family). Granted, from what I've seen, there would need to be a lot of work to make Bernard that replacement and be accepted if DC management does want him to be Tim's OTP, just noting that there have been instances where the "main" love interest was successfully replaced by a red herring or side character after the fact (e.g. Spider-Man's Mary Jane).

As with all of us, though, that undoubtedly has a lot to do with when I started reading.

Fair enough. Only really read the Cassandra Cain stuff, so, I think of Steph as being Cass's best friend more readily than I do of her dating Tim.

[Frontier]

Neither Jason and Artemis nor Tim and Stephanie are relevant enough for DC to invest into them outside of comics. If they want to push Tim with a new love interest, it isn't too late. In fact, I think the recent fan obsession with Steph is rather questionable. This is why I'm always careful when criticizing Bernard because a lot of Tim's so-called fans don't really care about his relationship, they only care about him having a girlfriend and let's be for real, Tim's problem isn't who he is dating, it's the lack of direction, but of course it's easier for fans to blame everything on his sexuality.

I mean, do we really think Bernard is as good a character as Steph or has anywhere near the buildup or development she got? The only reason they seem invested in Bernard is because of the diversity angle.

Fair enough. I'm not personally convinced that Steph couldn't be replaced by another character as Tim's "one true love," given that I'm not sure the relationship is "mainstream" enough or enough of a defining element to be irreplaceable (unlike, say, Superman/Lois Lane, or even Batman/Catwoman, to keep things in the Bat-Family). Granted, from what I've seen, there would need to be a lot of work to make Bernard that replacement and be accepted if DC management does want him to be Tim's OTP, just noting that there have been instances where the "main" love interest was successfully replaced by a red herring or side character after the fact (e.g. Spider-Man's Mary Jane).

Fair enough. Only really read the Cassandra Cain stuff, so, I think of Steph as being Cass's best friend more readily than I do of her dating Tim.

I mean, most of her core character and Spoiler stuff comes from her appearances in Tim's Robin book.

Steph is more of the MJ in this situation because she wasn't even in his initial girlfriend but ended up becoming the most popular one.

[Aahz]

Fair enough. I'm not personally convinced that Steph couldn't be replaced by another character as Tim's "one true love," given that I'm not sure the relationship is "mainstream" enough or enough of a defining element to be irreplaceable (unlike, say, Superman/Lois Lane, or even Batman/Catwoman, to keep things in the Bat-Family).

Tim him self is not particularly mainstream.

And even if you replace her in the main stream that doesn't mean that you get the comix readers behind it. Take Green Arrow as example, I think CW pretty much made Felicity his main stream love interest but among the comic readers Black Canary is still far more popular.

And they probably can replace Steph a main love interest even in the comics (even if they will likly more lead to a situation as with Bruce and Dick who have several iconic love interest), but that takes much better writing than everything they did with Bernard.

[Morgoth]

We shouldn't forget, that in comics industry people don't really like ''one true love'' concept at all, for various reasons. We see Bruce/Selina and Peter/MJ treatment, and even with Clark and Lois we know there are writers, who are clearly unhappy about them being married, like Waid, for instance.

[ayanestar]

I mean, do we really think Bernard is as good a character as Steph or has anywhere near the buildup or development she got? The only reason they seem invested in Bernard is because of the diversity angle.

I don't remember ever claiming Bernard was a good character, all I said was that Steph is easily replaceable because she is nowhere near as iconic as Selina or Lois. If they want a new love interest for Tim, they have to put in some work, but it's not too late. Who knows, even Bernard could develop into a decent character, it all depends on the next writer. I'm personally still hoping DC will remember Bunker and pair him up with Tim.

[witchboy]

I tried looking for it and it was not there searching Fitzmartin's name or the book name. All I got was the single issues.

It must be been taken down briefly or it was a glitch.




Yet many of them DO.

And I have seen some REFUSE to sell a book. That many want and is selling-especially those of POC.

You're right, when I searched for it, it didn't come up, but the link I posted still works so it does seem likely that the book has been pulled and they just haven't offically cancelled it.
I expect that they're going to instead just release the whole series in one larger trade. I'll be very surprised if it doesn't get collected. Virtually everything Bat related gets collected, and this seems like a series that would do better in trade that in floppies as Tim being bi is likely to pull in some buyers who don't normally buy comics.

[OBrianTallent]

You're right, when I searched for it, it didn't come up, but the link I posted still works so it does seem likely that the book has been pulled and they just haven't offically cancelled it.
I expect that they're going to instead just release the whole series in one larger trade. I'll be very surprised if it doesn't get collected. Virtually everything Bat related gets collected, and this seems like a series that would do better in trade that in floppies as Tim being bi is likely to pull in some buyers who don't normally buy comics.

It's still there. It's under Tim Drake: Robin vol. 1 With the series only running ten issues, it would make more sense for them to collect all ten issues in one volume as that would leave only 4 issues for the last trade which isn't unusual necessarily, but not much sense from a publishing standpoint. But hey...this is DC we are talking about.

[Aahz]

You're right, when I searched for it, it didn't come up, but the link I posted still works so it does seem likely that the book has been pulled and they just haven't offically cancelled it.
I expect that they're going to instead just release the whole series in one larger trade. I'll be very surprised if it doesn't get collected. Virtually everything Bat related gets collected, and this seems like a series that would do better in trade that in floppies as Tim being bi is likely to pull in some buyers who don't normally buy comics.

It hasn't vanished, Amazon just f***ed up and put the TPB together with the Kindle version of the first issue in the same article.

[The Lucky One]

In fact, I think the recent fan obsession with Steph is rather questionable.

To be fair, it’s not recent… Stephanie Brown has had a small but obsessive cadre of fans basically since right after War Games. Look back at the early days of the New 52, and it’s filled with fans complaining about Stephanie and Cass being erased from existence, or asking Dan Didio when they’re coming back. There was a Stephanie Brown Batgirl fan film that got pretty far into production before DC shut it down.

Mind, I’m not disagreeing with you that there are definitely some people complaining because they’re homophobic, or just fear change. And if Bernard had been, say, Bernice, some of those complaining voices would be absent. Agreed. (I still think there’d be many people who weren’t crazy about the art, and/or who didn’t like a couple we last saw happy together being broken up off-panel.) But the love for Stephanie Brown didn’t just spring up in negative contrast to Bernard. There are tons of Steph-centered blogs and fan art and cosplays and fanfics going back a decade and a half or more.

[Konja7]

To be fair, it’s not recent… Stephanie Brown has had a small but obsessive cadre of fans basically since right after War Games. Look back at the early days of the New 52, and it’s filled with fans complaining about Stephanie and Cass being erased from existence, or asking Dan Didio when they’re coming back. There was a Stephanie Brown Batgirl fan film that got pretty far into production before DC shut it down.

Mind, I’m not disagreeing with you that there are definitely some people complaining because they’re homophobic, or just fear change. And if Bernard had been, say, Bernice, some of those complaining voices would be absent. Agreed. (I still think there’d be many people who weren’t crazy about the art, and/or who didn’t like a couple we last saw happy together being broken up off-panel.) But the love for Stephanie Brown didn’t just spring up in negative contrast to Bernard. There are tons of Steph-centered blogs and fan art and cosplays and fanfics going back a decade and a half or more.

I think Ayanestar means the recent fan obsession with the romantic relationship between Tim and Stephanie.

I liked TimSteph, but I didn't see so much mention about Stephanie being Tim's big love interest during the four years Stephanie was dissapeared after Flashpoint. I mean, Stephanie fans were asking for her return for years, but that was almost no related to her relationship with Tim.

That's why so much recent interest in Stephanie being Tim's big love when he starts dating a guy seems suspicious.

[Jackalope89]

I think Ayanestar means the recent fan obsession with the romantic relationship between Tim and Stephanie.

I liked TimSteph, but I didn't see so much mention about Stephanie being Tim's big love interest during the four years Stephanie was dissapeared after Flashpoint. I mean, Stephanie fans were asking for her return for years, but that was almost no related to her relationship with Tim.

That's why so much recent interest in Stephanie being Tim's big love when he starts dating a guy seems suspicious.

I like Steph more than Tim (which, given that Tim may as well be a background character for me most of the time, yeah), but there were those that wanted them back together even during those early years.
But literally just before Fitzmartin took over Tim, Tim and Steph had not only been dating, but getting more and more serious. And then, Tim ghosts and dumps Steph off screen, and sounds very odd when she sees Tim and OC named Bernard together. Like, badly out of character for literally any kind of human being. Even if Bernie was a girl and Steph said the samething, it would still not be a good response. Considering Steph still got dumped on, badly. And the way Fitzmartin, through Tim, just dismisses literal years of relationship development for a crappy fanfic trope, only makes it worse.
There was some.