Tim Drake: Robin, Red Robin, Appreciation 2023

[Noodle]

Curiously, fandoms tend to make more noise when a bi male character starts dating women, especially if the male characters are young and good looking.

Not really. They constantly push the Constantine/Zatanna thing and no one has an issue with it.

[Aahz]

There are other bi characters who are mostly or always only in opposite sex relationships, like Catwoman and Wonder Woman.

With characters that have such iconic love interest that go back 80+ years, making them bi was imo pretty pointless in the first place.

[ZuLuLu]

DC have a lot of LGBT characters but most of them cannot carry a book some maybe used in team books but relationships are not developed that is why they had main members of the Superman and the Batman 'come out' these characters are more likely to continually to be used even when their solo book are cancelled.

This is also the reason they are more likely to be in a same sex relationship, bi characters are placed in same sexed relationships because most characters are straight and most of them are already in straight pairings putting the few bi characters in straight pairings means that it is less likely that same sex relationships are represented.

Media representation is never going to be perfect.

[ZuLuLu]

True. It's interesting there aren't so many complaints about these cases.

Curiously, fandoms tend to make more noise when a bi male character starts dating women, especially if the male characters are young and good looking.

Not really, Constantine/Zatanna and Deken and Aurora shows that fans have no problem with bi males dating women.

I think fans just wanted their bi sexuality to be acknowledge and not just use as an excuse to make crude jokes and questionable storylines.

[ZuLuLu]

Also, Tim will be fine whether you like his solo or not he is currently the second main character in Batman, DC's best selling book and fans seem to like how he's been written there, he's in a better shape than a lot of characters in the DC Comics.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

That is actually not true, depending on where you look, you will find many people criticizing DC for making certain characters bisexual but never giving them a relevant partner of the same sex, however because their most popular relationship is with someone of the opposite gender, you won't find fans complaining about it. In fact, casual fans aren't even aware these characters are bisexual unlike with Constantine, where even casuals are aware of his sexuality. In my opinion, not every bisexual character has to be in a meaningful relationship with both genders because there are many of us that prefer one gender over the other, but when a big company like DC makes one of their most popular characters bisexual, you kind of hope to see it in some way and not just in a throw away comment, if it's mentioned at all.


It definitely is, and it's not a surprise because the only reason DC made him bisexual is to make him stand out from the other Robins, so of course they would fast-forward to him having a "meaningful" relationship with someone of the same gender. It's why I disliked his coming-out, it was lazy, and no effort was put into it. I don't think we will never see him with a woman in comics again, but I highly doubt he will have a long-lasting relationship with one ever again. The Titans and the webtoon (as far as I'm aware of) have already set him up with his boyfriend. Also, don't get me wrong, as someone who is bisexual myself, I'm always open to more bi characters, but I absolutely despise it when I can tell how little effort was put into it, which is why I still hope Tim will get a proper writer and can reboot his whole coming-out.

Where do you it faltered and entered into "lazy and little effort"?

[Konja7]

Also, Tim will be fine whether you like his solo or not he is currently the second main character in Batman, DC's best selling book and fans seem to like how he's been written there, he's in a better shape than a lot of characters in the DC Comics.

Currently, Tim isn't the second main character in Batman. Maybe he is still called Robin, but he doesn't have the relevance he had in the past.

Dick seems to be a lot more important. Also, Damian as Robin seems to have more relevance for Batman.

[Noodle]

Currently, Tim isn't the second main character in Batman. Maybe he is still called Robin, but he doesn't have the relevance he had in the past.

Dick seems to be a lot more important. Also, Damian as Robin seems to have more relevance for Batman.

I think you're confusing the Batman brand with the Batman book. In the current main Batman title, Nightwing ahd Damian aren't even in it.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Right here is the big problem.

Are you saying that tim is only great because of Robin.

A mantle that was created and established by someone else. A mantle that's been built up for decades by other[s], that was already great before Tim was conceptualised.

Don't you see how that devalues the character of Tim?

I fear it's this line of thought that has prevented Tim from successfully growing and moving on.

This is why all other directions they've tried to stir the character in since Damian arrived failed/faced resistance.

Yes Tim was created to be Robin but that doesn't mean he can't be more than that. That doesn't mean the character can't grow beyond it's initial purpose.

Dick Grayson was also created to be just Robin and look how far the character has come.

Yes Robin is an Iconic mantle but why you would assume that moving on from Robin is a downgrade when every other male Robin who has graduated the role has gone on to establish themselves under hero ids that are today more popular than Robin is baffling.

Again smacks of devaluing Tim drake as a character/not having confidence that Tim as a character has what it takes to make it with out Robin.

Dick Grayson made it. Jason Todd made it. The only thing stopping Tim is that a large number of fans and TPTB don't seem to have faith that he can make it.

They seem to think that Being Robin is what makes Tim Drake great

FYI The statement " because he was the OG Robin and had to make way for Jason" makes zero sense.

It's pretty much the same thing except that in Dick's case it was riskier. An up hill battle since it was unprecedented and Dick was giving up a mantle he created and established.

Tim was great as Robin once upon a time but that wasn't what made him great.

I enjoyed Tim more in his Red Robin run.

Well said.

I'm hoping we do get to see an alternate universe version of Tim during Zdarsky's Batman run.

[skyvolt2000]

Dick Grayson was also created to be just Robin and look how far the character has come.

Yes Robin is an Iconic mantle but why you would assume that moving on from Robin is a downgrade when every other male Robin who has graduated the role has gone on to establish themselves under hero ids that are today more popular than Robin is baffling.

Dick Grayson made it. Jason Todd made it. The only thing stopping Tim is that a large number of fans and TPTB don't seem to have faith that he can make it.

Here is the major difference between Tim, Dick & Jason.

Dick becomes Nightwing in 1984-he was in book that was actively on the shelf every year before he got his first mini and later ongoing.

Almost 40 years we have seen Dick in that suit in Titans, Teen Titans, Nightwing and Outsider.

Jason as Red Hood since 2005-for now 18 years we have seen him in that suit every year be it in his own book or others.

Damian has not been seen as anything but Robin.

Tim-has not been seen as anything but Robin in a consistent book. Where who he is not debated or questioned. We are near 200+ issues of a title called Robin starring Tim Drake.

The former powers that be have screwed with Tim's generation so much that why would TPTB have faith he can make it as someone else. When almost every book he has been since 2006 has had issues.

Bad writers and editors not knowing how to do their jobs.

[ZuLuLu]

Currently, Tim isn't the second main character in Batman. Maybe he is still called Robin, but he doesn't have the relevance he had in the past.

Dick seems to be a lot more important. Also, Damian as Robin seems to have more relevance for Batman.

I think you're confusing the Batman brand with the Batman book. In the current main Batman title, Nightwing ahd Damian aren't even in it.

Yep, I was talking about the main Batman book, not the brand.

Tim is a main character in that book plus the backup.

[witchboy]

That's not remotely true. Dc has always had as many male LGbtQ heroes as female.

Aqualad, Constantine, Ray, Danny Street, Starman, Ozymandias, Piped Piper, Extrano, Jericho just to name a few.

Representation isn't just a matter of counting heads. There have long been many prominent gay and bi women at DC - Poison Ivy, Harley, Catwoman, Wonder Woman, household names who've had solo titles, animated and live action movies. Until very recently the gay and bi men at DC have been mostly minor characters. Aqualad has only been around for six years, I'm not talking about just today but historic rep.

[Drako]

Tim-has not been seen as anything but Robin in a consistent book. Where who he is not debated or questioned. We are near 200+ issues of a title called Robin starring Tim Drake.

What about the time he was in PAD's Young Justice and soon after Johns Teen Titans?

[SixSpeedSamurai]

What about the time he was in PAD's Young Justice and soon after Johns Teen Titans?

As Robin, that was their point.

[Drako]

At this point, i doubt they will turn him into something else. He will probably share the mantle with Damian and i think Damian has more of a chance to move on than Tim.