Zatanna Zatara Mistress of Magic Appreciation 2023

[Edwin30]

Okay. Don't nerf her but make her comic be more serious. Make her acknowledge that she has the powers of a god.
Explore weird concepts like making her brutally kill criminals and then bringing them back to life so they get a view of what awaits them in the afterlife. Or go back to old infamous mindwipes and explore its morality.

I want her to explore everything that a normal hero bound by rules of law and morality can't do. Really walk the line between good and evil.

All that it requires is to make her take her powers seriously. Stop with the dumb foreplay of fighting enemies with punches, kicks and magic lasers. End it at the beginning with a single word. Find out what made these criminals commit the crime. Was it poverty and hunger or was it just plain greed.

Or make her tackle institutions that are guarded by the law but are making everything difficult for the common man. Superman and Batman rely on physical intimidation. Make Zee try mind control and its consequences. Like making a corrupt politician donate his wealth to charity is wrong but is it really wrong when he has gathered that wealth through corruption.

Topics like this provide a better challenge to people with powers like Zatanna.

Flash once said Zatanna made volcanic lava turn into a field of flowers. Powers like that make superman feel small. Explore the consequence of displaying such power to the world. Reality warpers look good only when they do it on a large scale.

[Frontier]

[Edwin30]

Someone posted a cool interaction between Zatanna and Martian Manhunter.

It's an example of the unique world they live in where both science and magic are on equal footing.

[Edwin30]

Never liked how she was portrayed here. The writers were so horny to make Zatanna and Clark kiss that they made Zatanna cross a few lines.

[Frontier]

Never liked how she was portrayed here. The writers were so horny to make Zatanna and Clark kiss that they made Zatanna cross a few lines.

Even so I thought Serinda Swan looked and acted the part.

[Mai Zen]

Never liked how she was portrayed here. The writers were so horny to make Zatanna and Clark kiss that they made Zatanna cross a few lines.

You know what, just like You Paul Dini allegedly hate the interpretation too

[kcekada]

Even so I thought Serinda Swan looked and acted the part.

I didn't watch the show, so this is my first exposure to her, and I agree! Why they didnt' spin her off into her series is beyond me.

[Edwin30]

I don't like it when Dini makes Zatanna flex her money (show off her wealth) because

1) most of the times it isn't clear whether it's honest money or not. She uses magic on stage but does the audience know that? She could be conning people.
2) people don't like watching their heroes enjoying lavish expensive things. They usually want their heroes fighting against such people.

Also I don't like it when Zatanna is portrayed as lacking any self awareness. I remember her conversation with Zachary where she yells at him - " magic shouldn't be used for personal gain ". I remember watching this youtube video where Dini is at comic con talking about this specific scene saying I meant it to show Zatanna's hypocrisy.

I don't think people reading it found it funny or cute. I think Dini wanted people to think of Zatanna the way they think of Harley where her bad behavior is forgiven. It works for Harley because of her tragic backstory but not Zatanna- she pretty much had a cushy life and a stable mind.

It would be cool to restore Zatanna's original backstory where she didn't know she had powers till her father went missing. OR let her know she has powers but not be able to use them till much later so she can grow on her own. She could be a backup feature to her father's performance.

She used to call herself the Princess of Prestidigitation back then.

You know all this mess could be easily avoided if we simply acknowledge that Magic is a skill not an ability. A skill that can be learned by anyone. You already got Batman, Damian, Talia etc using magic.

See writers aren't thinking about Zatanna like that. They don't show her origin. They don't give a damn about how her life works. I think a new solo (if she gets one) needs to deal with these topics.

[Frontier]

I don't like it when Dini makes Zatanna flex her money (show off her wealth) because

1) most of the times it isn't clear whether it's honest money or not. She uses magic on stage but does the audience know that? She could be conning people.
2) people don't like watching their heroes enjoying lavish expensive things. They usually want their heroes fighting against such people.

Also I don't like it when Zatanna is portrayed as lacking any self awareness. I remember her conversation with Zachary where she yells at him - " magic shouldn't be used for personal gain ". I remember watching this youtube video where Dini is at comic con talking about this specific scene saying I meant it to show Zatanna's hypocrisy.

I don't think people reading it found it funny or cute. I think Dini wanted people to think of Zatanna the way they think of Harley where her bad behavior is forgiven. It works for Harley because of her tragic backstory but not Zatanna- she pretty much had a cushy life and a stable mind.

It would be cool to restore Zatanna's original backstory where she didn't know she had powers till her father went missing. OR let her know she has powers but not be able to use them till much later so she can grow on her own. She could be a backup feature to her father's performance.

She used to call herself the Princess of Prestidigitation back then.

You know all this mess could be easily avoided if we simply acknowledge that Magic is a skill not an ability. A skill that can be learned by anyone. You already got Batman, Damian, Talia etc using magic.

See writers aren't thinking about Zatanna like that. They don't show her origin. They don't give a damn about how her life works. I think a new solo (if she gets one) needs to deal with these topics.

I remember a moment in Bloodspell (I think I mentioned this before) where she and Black Canary are shopping in a mall and see a bunch of Zatanna merch but Zee gets tight-lipped when Dinah brings up whether all the proceeds from said merch goes to charity like it does for the rest of the League. I thought it was pretty amusing .

I don't think she's conning anyone, though, she gives them a show which is what they pay for. Same thing her dad did.

It's not like other DC Superheroes don't have cushy living in their own right, and I don't think that detracts from their heroism.

[Edwin30]

I remember a moment in Bloodspell (I think I mentioned this before) where she and Black Canary are shopping in a mall and see a bunch of Zatanna merch but Zee gets tight-lipped when Dinah brings up whether all the proceeds from said merch goes to charity like it does for the rest of the League. I thought it was pretty amusing .

I don't think she's conning anyone, though, she gives them a show which is what they pay for. Same thing her dad did.

It's not like other DC Superheroes don't have cushy living in their own right, and I don't think that detracts from their heroism.

Amusing for a second. After that it becomes a part of her character. Writers don't wanna write a selfish character who abuses her powers for profit.
This is what's keeping her from being used in good stories. She can't be a good role model. She has all the power in the world and refuses to use it in a meaningful way. To help the needy like regular superheroes do.

Don't drag her Dad down. Maybe at that time they didn't think that Zatara using magic on stage set a bad example. Maybe because comics at that time were meant to attract children but now that even adults consume these comics we have to look at it through a modern view.

We don't want to glorify con-men so Zatara's origin can be changed a little. Or it doesn't have to be changed at all.

His story goes like this-
After he found out he had powers, he tried it on stage. Suddenly a fire broke out and he used his powers to put out the fire. He realized that he could use his powers for good.
That's it.

What doesn't make sense and it didn't occur to writers of that time was - Zatara never disguised himself. He was Zatara both on and off stage. So the audience being unaware of his powers should have never been the issue.

Same goes for Zatanna. She can live an honest life without dumb ass logic writers try to put on her such as hiding in plain sight or disguising her magic as stage magic.

I gotta hire an artist to draw a two panel comic.
Panel 1 will be a guy watching Zatanna having a laser fight with Felix Faust up in the air.
Panel 2 will be the same guy shouting -"She's using wires!!" while Zatanna performs a levitating act on stage.

Then I gotta make that comic popular.

[Frontier]

Amusing for a second. After that it becomes a part of her character. Writers don't wanna write a selfish character who abuses her powers for profit.
This is what's keeping her from being used in good stories. She can't be a good role model. She has all the power in the world and refuses to use it in a meaningful way. To help the needy like regular superheroes do.

Don't drag her Dad down. Maybe at that time they didn't think that Zatara using magic on stage set a bad example. Maybe because comics at that time were meant to attract children but now that even adults consume these comics we have to look at it through a modern view.

We don't want to glorify con-men so Zatara's origin can be changed a little. Or it doesn't have to be changed at all.

His story goes like this-
After he found out he had powers, he tried it on stage. Suddenly a fire broke out and he used his powers to put out the fire. He realized that he could use his powers for good.
That's it.

What doesn't make sense and it didn't occur to writers of that time was - Zatara never disguised himself. He was Zatara both on and off stage. So the audience being unaware of his powers should have never been the issue.

Same goes for Zatanna. She can live an honest life without dumb ass logic writers try to put on her such as hiding in plain sight or disguising her magic as stage magic.

I gotta hire an artist to draw a two panel comic.
Panel 1 will be a guy watching Zatanna having a laser fight with Felix Faust up in the air.
Panel 2 will be the same guy shouting -"She's using wires!!" while Zatanna performs a levitating act on stage.

Then I gotta make that comic popular.

I don't know if that's really that big a part of her character? At least from what I've seen.

How is she not a good role model? She fights mystical threats and saves people? Is it because you think her dayjob makes light of that? Even though it's for the pleasure and enjoyment of others? It doesn't make the Zatara's con artists, they just had public identities and were professional stage magicians.

[superduperman]

You know what, just like You Paul Dini allegedly hate the interpretation too

Oh, I VERY much want to hear that story!

[John Venus]

I don't recall any instance of Zatanna 'flexing' her wealth. She makes money but it's clear in both her ongoing and in Bloodspell that she would rather keep it private. Even when Zach finds out that she sometimes makes close to millions, she was quick to point out that most of that money goes into stuff like paying employees, feeding her animals, paying for props, etc, etc.

Even Pre Dini, it was shown her family had an estate in NY, Gotham and San Francisco. However, she was also shown to live in apartments at times. I'm guessing how wealthy she is, depends on how well her shows are going and how much she has left after paying off everything. Plus, given her abilities, I can see people accusing her of using her abilities to gain money illegally so that's another reason why she would keep it a secret.

[John Venus]

You know what, just like You Paul Dini allegedly hate the interpretation too

I would love to know more about this.

Smallville's Zatanna was flawed. She acted more like Circe;switching Chloe and Lois's bodies just because they wished for it with no regards for consequences.

[TheCasualReader]

I gotta be honest, I've never gotten what was so bad about using your powers for profit. There's a really great Astrocity story about a bunch of super-powered people who don't want to be superheroes, so they use their powers for "regular" work instead. For example, one of them is a telekinetic who helps with stunt work and special effects.

Zatanna using her powers to make money is perfectly fine and since she specifically chose to be a stage performer, she didn't exactly go the easy route: she'd still have to put a lot of time and work into designing her shows, practicing, touring etc. If she's making money off it, that just means she's running a successful show and good for her. Not every superhero needs to have money problems or not have a lot of money - in Zatanna's case, that's probably something she should only be dealing with once in a while. Zatanna can have money and not live in a mansion: she can have money and prefer to live on the road or in small but comfortable places. She can use her money on show expenses and donate her money to charity. It only limits what a writer can do with the character if the writer makes it.

If anything, I'd say a comic about her should lean into her being a stage performer because it's a unique angle. For example, she uses her calm on the stage for when she fights bad guys. She uses the inspiration she finds for the magic tricks to her show in her crime-fighting and vice versa. She's sometimes stressed because she wants to come up with a good show, but doesn't feel like she's managing (maybe she's a bit of perfectionist like that, especially since she's carrying on the family tradition) Maybe she has a civilian "nemesis" who looks down on her for not having to put in the effort with her tricks because she can use real magic (but the readers knows how much hard work and sweat she really puts into her shows) but the two grudgingly admire each other. She deals with all kinds of magic and knows personally how scary it can be, so she loves that she can focus on it being wonderful and she really loves seeing the wonder in people's eyes.

It'd also be fun if she used a combination of magician's tricks and real magic because, like her outfit shows, she has a love for the classics.

Zatanna misusing her powers for profit or using them irresponsibly would be if she treated her fights as a stage show in a way that endangered civilians either by drawing out fights to show off or by drawing crowds closer for attention.