Zatanna Zatara Mistress of Magic Appreciation 2023

[Vordan]

I thought she did use her magic to enhance her act. That’s using her powers to benefit herself. I know there’s been some back and forth on that, sometimes she refuses to use “real” magic for her act but I distinctly recall times where she does incorporate real magic into her performances.

[Mai Zen]

Amusing for a second. After that it becomes a part of her character. Writers don't wanna write a selfish character who abuses her powers for profit.
This is what's keeping her from being used in good stories. She can't be a good role model. She has all the power in the world and refuses to use it in a meaningful way. To help the needy like regular superheroes do.

Don't drag her Dad down. Maybe at that time they didn't think that Zatara using magic on stage set a bad example. Maybe because comics at that time were meant to attract children but now that even adults consume these comics we have to look at it through a modern view.

We don't want to glorify con-men so Zatara's origin can be changed a little. Or it doesn't have to be changed at all.

His story goes like this-
After he found out he had powers, he tried it on stage. Suddenly a fire broke out and he used his powers to put out the fire. He realized that he could use his powers for good.
That's it.

What doesn't make sense and it didn't occur to writers of that time was - Zatara never disguised himself. He was Zatara both on and off stage. So the audience being unaware of his powers should have never been the issue.

Same goes for Zatanna. She can live an honest life without dumb ass logic writers try to put on her such as hiding in plain sight or disguising her magic as stage magic.

I gotta hire an artist to draw a two panel comic.
Panel 1 will be a guy watching Zatanna having a laser fight with Felix Faust up in the air.
Panel 2 will be the same guy shouting -"She's using wires!!" while Zatanna performs a levitating act on stage.

Then I gotta make that comic popular.

Eh I mean Zatanna does coerce some of her employers notably crooks to pay her through charity She controls


Beside it's not like Giovanni and Zatanna is strangers to poor life. I think it's just needed to be explored in comic.


DC Super Hero Girls does let us experience their hardship when they traveled the country

[Mai Zen]

Oh, I VERY much want to hear that story!

I would love to know more about this.

Smallville's Zatanna was flawed. She acted more like Circe;switching Chloe and Lois's bodies just because they wished for it with no regards for consequences.

Sadly, it's hard to pinpoint which podcast when Paul Dini and Misty Lee talk about it. Their website does contain a lot of podcasts and some of it perhaps aren't archived
https://radiorashy.com/?s=Zatanna

[Edwin30]

I gotta be honest, I've never gotten what was so bad about using your powers for profit. There's a really great Astrocity story about a bunch of super-powered people who don't want to be superheroes, so they use their powers for "regular" work instead. For example, one of them is a telekinetic who helps with stunt work and special effects.

Zatanna using her powers to make money is perfectly fine and since she specifically chose to be a stage performer, she didn't exactly go the easy route: she'd still have to put a lot of time and work into designing her shows, practicing, touring etc. If she's making money off it, that just means she's running a successful show and good for her. Not every superhero needs to have money problems or not have a lot of money - in Zatanna's case, that's probably something she should only be dealing with once in a while. Zatanna can have money and not live in a mansion: she can have money and prefer to live on the road or in small but comfortable places. She can use her money on show expenses and donate her money to charity. It only limits what a writer can do with the character if the writer makes it.

If anything, I'd say a comic about her should lean into her being a stage performer because it's a unique angle. For example, she uses her calm on the stage for when she fights bad guys. She uses the inspiration she finds for the magic tricks to her show in her crime-fighting and vice versa. She's sometimes stressed because she wants to come up with a good show, but doesn't feel like she's managing (maybe she's a bit of perfectionist like that, especially since she's carrying on the family tradition) Maybe she has a civilian "nemesis" who looks down on her for not having to put in the effort with her tricks because she can use real magic (but the readers knows how much hard work and sweat she really puts into her shows) but the two grudgingly admire each other. She deals with all kinds of magic and knows personally how scary it can be, so she loves that she can focus on it being wonderful and she really loves seeing the wonder in people's eyes.

It'd also be fun if she used a combination of magician's tricks and real magic because, like her outfit shows, she has a love for the classics.

Zatanna misusing her powers for profit or using them irresponsibly would be if she treated her fights as a stage show in a way that endangered civilians either by drawing out fights to show off or by drawing crowds closer for attention.

I agree with everything you said but my problem is not that.
My problem is that writers often times portray her as hiding her powers. When in reality neither Zee nor her father has ever worn a mask or had an alias. They have always been upfront about their magic but somehow when they are on stage their audience forgets that they are superheroes with superpowers.

This make me angry. If writers are gonna portray them as someone who hides their powers then atleast don't show them living in luxury.

[Frontier]

I agree with everything you said but my problem is not that.
My problem is that writers often times portray her as hiding her powers. When in reality neither Zee nor her father has ever worn a mask or had an alias. They have always been upfront about their magic but somehow when they are on stage their audience forgets that they are superheroes with superpowers.

This make me angry. If writers are gonna portray them as someone who hides their powers then atleast don't show them living in luxury.

I guess that's the power of good stage magic. You're never sure what's real or what isn't .

[TheCasualReader]

I agree with everything you said but my problem is not that.
My problem is that writers often times portray her as hiding her powers. When in reality neither Zee nor her father has ever worn a mask or had an alias. They have always been upfront about their magic but somehow when they are on stage their audience forgets that they are superheroes with superpowers.

This make me angry. If writers are gonna portray them as someone who hides their powers then atleast don't show them living in luxury.

Oh yeah, I agree that makes absolutely no sense: Zatanna is the most conspicuous hero ever.

[Edwin30]

I want comics that don't portray Zee as a funny character. I want serious drama with some horror. I remember reading Alan Moore's swamp thing. He put so much into the characters in Swamp thing that it didn't even matter who the next villain was gonna be. He showed the story from so many
different perspectives. He knew how to ground the story like it was happening in real life.

I want something like that for Zatanna. Of course it's gonna be difficult because a person with God like powers living among everyone in a city is not natural. Everyone knows who she is and what she's capable of.
It's only her reputation as a good person that's keeps people relaxed. What if something corrupts that image or threatens to corrupt it. How would the world see her then.
A person like Zatanna would be treated like Doctor Manhattan - kept away from public and called upon to help the nation. But she isn't treated like that. I want some writer to explore her non secretive life and also explore magic and it's effect on society.

Like in watchmen universe because of Doctor Manhatten electric vehicles became so efficient and so common that they made combustion engines obsolete.

Similarly I want Magic to become something so common that people use it in their daily lives. It has to be something small at first that doesn't change the landscape too drastically like the animated newspaper (from harry potter). Then move to other things like a living teddy bear (from Ted).

I don't see why magic has to be kept so secretive. It just makes superheroes look like jerks who don't wanna help the society. This can be a nice premise for a Zatanna solo. Her public identity, position in the magical community and her objective to make people see the good in magic makes her the number one candidate to introduce everyone to magic and let everyone reap its benefits.

[Frontier]

Oh yeah, I agree that makes absolutely no sense: Zatanna is the most conspicuous hero ever.

I guess one could argue it takes the fun out of being a stage magician if you're that overt with your real magic.

[TheCasualReader]

I guess one could argue it takes the fun out of being a stage magician if you're that overt with your real magic.

Not really. You still have to design and plan your performances so they stay new and remain memorable, especially if you rely on actual magic because you need something to keep people coming back to your shows once the novelty of seeing real-life magic has worn off.

[Edwin30]

One thing Young Justice did great was to make Zatara a prisoner of Doctor Fate. It made us feel bad for Zatanna when we heard about the "one hour a year" deal.
If I was the show runner and wanted to write more Zatanna I would have never let Zatara out.

So many writer just keep wanna give a happy ending to their characters not thinking that they are destroying a major source of story potential for that character.

This is another thing that Paul Dini did wrong. He made Zatara into a stupid ghost and now Zatanna has nothing to be sad about. It would've been cool if she earned it after a couple of arcs but no Dini gave it to her right in the third issue. Dini must have felt really smug doing that, as if he had done a big favor for Zatanna.

I watched his BTAS episodes in which he gave villains such sad stories that by the end they still didn't find peace. They still had these issues that made us feel bad for them. That I think is what made the viewers want to see more of them.

Dini just loves Zatanna too much. He can't stand seeing her be sad. That's why he does these kinds of stories. He did the same with her relation with Batman too. Oh Batman angry at Zatanna? One issue later everything is good and forgiven.

You could've extended this conflict. Made Zatanna work more to gain Batman's trust if you really wanted to write more Zatanna.

[Frontier]

Not really. You still have to design and plan your performances so they stay new and remain memorable, especially if you rely on actual magic because you need something to keep people coming back to your shows once the novelty of seeing real-life magic has worn off.

Yeah, but one could argue that it's funner to keep the audience guessing what's real and what's fake .

[Vordan]

I’m going to hope that Zatanna is on the new BoP team. She really needs a book right now, and having her there would help elevate the book above it’s typical street level threats. Would make me pick up the book if nothing else.

[Frontier]

I’m going to hope that Zatanna is on the new BoP team. She really needs a book right now, and having her there would help elevate the book above it’s typical street level threats. Would make me pick up the book if nothing else.

I think Thompson would have a lot of fun with Zee plus it would be neat to have two fishnet heroines on one team again .

[Edwin30]

I’m going to hope that Zatanna is on the new BoP team. She really needs a book right now, and having her there would help elevate the book above it’s typical street level threats. Would make me pick up the book if nothing else.

What would Zee do there?
Just let them have this book without Harley Quinn this time.

[Vordan]

What would Zee do there?
Just let them have this book without Harley Quinn this time.

No clue, but Harley is 100% going to be on the team lol. I just want Zatanna to show up somewhere, and I enjoyed how Tynion used her over in Tec, so I do think Zatanna can work with a gritty street team. Cass being the second BoP member makes me doubt it will happen but you never know.