Catwoman/Selina Kyle Appreciation Thread

[phonogram12]

To be fair, the armpit thing allows for easier arm movement. Which is good for a thief.

I first noticed this in Hong Kong action films back in the '90s or so. Makes perfect sense. Certainly more than heels for a rooftop cat burglar/vigilante.

[Frontier]

Practicality doesn't always equal good design sense in my book.

[vitaminbee]

I think a balance helps between practicality and fantasy. The armpit stuff allowed for some new shapes and such and allow for her to look a little more like Batman Returns Catwoman. I think the new purple look is awful though. It's designed by someone who shouldn't be designing outfits. It also really depends on the artist who is drawing the outfit. Darwyn Cooke's look is amazing when drawn by Cooke/Stewart (sketchy) but then is awful under almost everyone else who draws it. Look at the one that you don't love. By Dan Mora, it looks really good. I think it looks better as one piece than a sleeve and a half glove.

[godisawesome]

I think a balance helps between practicality and fantasy. The armpit stuff allowed for some new shapes and such and allow for her to look a little more like Batman Returns Catwoman. I think the new purple look is awful though. It's designed by someone who shouldn't be designing outfits. It also really depends on the artist who is drawing the outfit. Darwyn Cooke's look is amazing when drawn by Cooke/Stewart (sketchy) but then is awful under almost everyone else who draws it. Look at the one that you don't love. By Dan Mora, it looks really good. I think it looks better as one piece than a sleeve and a half gloves.

The best costume designs “travel well;” artists with different styles can manage to make them work without them work. And sometimes a more limited design can either find itself with an artist’s style that makes it look bad… or a successful design can be consistently modified enough that it eventually becomes a poorer design than ti originally was. I think the “armpit” design isn’t particularly weak, but it’s got a few vulnerabilities because of how muchmore difficult it can be to make the armpit part work with the rest of the design aesthetic for some artists (I especially think it works best with an artists who emphasizes Selina having athletic shoulders, and not slyph-like ones.)

The Cooke design actually lasted for quite a while… but I think it started coming off as trashy when more and more artists started perpetually yanking the zipper down. The outfit was not designed to bare that much cleavage, unlike other costumes; it’s Emma Peele-like design was meant to be more of an elegant “working woman’s catsuit.” Similarly, in my opinion, the 90’s costume was designed to work with a “glorious mane” of hair, and started coming off more goofy whenever the hair was removed.

I think the new suit feels like a poor reworking of the 90’s suit, especially with he half gloves and lack of hair.

[vitaminbee]

The best costume designs “travel well;” artists with different styles can manage to make them work without them work. And sometimes a more limited design can either find itself with an artist’s style that makes it look bad… or a successful design can be consistently modified enough that it eventually becomes a poorer design than ti originally was. I think the “armpit” design isn’t particularly weak, but it’s got a few vulnerabilities because of how muchmore difficult it can be to make the armpit part work with the rest of the design aesthetic for some artists (I especially think it works best with an artists who emphasizes Selina having athletic shoulders, and not slyph-like ones.)

The Cooke design actually lasted for quite a while… but I think it started coming off as trashy when more and more artists started perpetually yanking the zipper down. The outfit was not designed to bare that much cleavage, unlike other costumes; it’s Emma Peele-like design was meant to be more of an elegant “working woman’s catsuit.” Similarly, in my opinion, the 90’s costume was designed to work with a “glorious mane” of hair, and started coming off more goofy whenever the hair was removed.

I think the new suit feels like a poor reworking of the 90’s suit, especially with he half gloves and lack of hair.

This is my biggest issue with the Cooke suit (after Cooke, Stewart, Rader, Pulido left, who all drew it perfectly... Gulacy was good too and Pete Woods) - they unzipped it constantly. It's my biggest pet peeve. Unzipping the suit is making something that is sexy (a catsuit is inherently sexy to begin with) and then sexualizing it by unzipping it. The last step is too much. It's almost out of character for Selina too. Then showing the seam of skin between the cowl and the body suit. Awful. Less is more!

[godisawesome]

This is my biggest issue with the Cooke suit (after Cooke, Stewart, Rader, Pulido left, who all drew it perfectly... Gulacy was good too and Pete Woods) - they unzipped it constantly. It's my biggest pet peeve. Unzipping the suit is making something that is sexy (a catsuit is inherently sexy to begin with) and then sexualizing it by unzipping it. The last step is too much. It's almost out of character for Selina too. Then showing the seam of skin between the cowl and the body suit. Awful. Less is more!

Yeah... it felt like one or two artists started lowering the zipper, and then others followed suit - which sort of defeated the aesthetic "purpose" of the design in exchange for cheaper T&A. The Cooke design's simplicity relied on a tiny bit of faux-"form before function" reasoning, and following the "Rule of Sexy" via cleavage worked against that without maintaining the elegance of the original design. Not that superheroine cleavage can't have "elegance" in costume design - her purple dress costume did that - but it *definitely* leaned towards the more "trashy female costume design" side of things. It was sort of the equivalent to how Balent's art grew more and more exaggerated with the 90's costume, until it started to feel a bit like a parody.

Now, an interesting facet of the armpit costume is that the more "complicated" torso can fail in some artists' hands because they struggle with texture and "substance" in the still generally tight clothing of heroes - a bit like how the Arkham games version of Catwoman's suit looked goofy in comic spin-offs, but worked better when the games could just map the costume out rather than require soemone to draw it.

[Frontier]

For me sometimes the Cooke suit just looked a little clunky/cumbersome from some artists.

[vitaminbee]

Now, an interesting facet of the armpit costume is that the more "complicated" torso can fail in some artists' hands because they struggle with texture and "substance" in the still generally tight clothing of heroes - a bit like how the Arkham games version of Catwoman's suit looked goofy in comic spin-offs, but worked better when the games could just map the costume out rather than require soemone to draw it.

The Arkham outfit was bad too. Took what Cooke did but made it all T and A. It was just a mess. Less is more.

[Frontier]

I liked her green eyes...

[phonogram12]

This is my biggest issue with the Cooke suit (after Cooke, Stewart, Rader, Pulido left, who all drew it perfectly... Gulacy was good too and Pete Woods) - they unzipped it constantly. It's my biggest pet peeve. Unzipping the suit is making something that is sexy (a catsuit is inherently sexy to begin with) and then sexualizing it by unzipping it. The last step is too much. It's almost out of character for Selina too. Then showing the seam of skin between the cowl and the body suit. Awful. Less is more!

All of this. Unfortunately, some artists just can't help themselves.

[Agent Z]

The best costume designs “travel well;” artists with different styles can manage to make them work without them work. And sometimes a more limited design can either find itself with an artist’s style that makes it look bad… or a successful design can be consistently modified enough that it eventually becomes a poorer design than ti originally was. I think the “armpit” design isn’t particularly weak, but it’s got a few vulnerabilities because of how muchmore difficult it can be to make the armpit part work with the rest of the design aesthetic for some artists (I especially think it works best with an artists who emphasizes Selina having athletic shoulders, and not slyph-like ones.)

The Cooke design actually lasted for quite a while… but I think it started coming off as trashy when more and more artists started perpetually yanking the zipper down. The outfit was not designed to bare that much cleavage, unlike other costumes; it’s Emma Peele-like design was meant to be more of an elegant “working woman’s catsuit.” Similarly, in my opinion, the 90’s costume was designed to work with a “glorious mane” of hair, and started coming off more goofy whenever the hair was removed.

I think the new suit feels like a poor reworking of the 90’s suit, especially with he half gloves and lack of hair.

I guess DC looked at Marvel's Black Cat and said "Fine. You wanna rip us off? We'll do the same thing to you!".

Though I think Mortal Kombat vs DC is the first time I saw Selina with the zipper down.

[Frontier]

[Bryan]

[Frontier]

Apparently I just found out that the reason for the belt on the B:TAS costume was so she'd looked less "naked." Ha!

[Restingvoice]

Yeah... it felt like one or two artists started lowering the zipper, and then others followed suit - which sort of defeated the aesthetic "purpose" of the design in exchange for cheaper T&A. The Cooke design's simplicity relied on a tiny bit of faux-"form before function" reasoning, and following the "Rule of Sexy" via cleavage worked against that without maintaining the elegance of the original design. Not that superheroine cleavage can't have "elegance" in costume design - her purple dress costume did that - but it *definitely* leaned towards the more "trashy female costume design" side of things. It was sort of the equivalent to how Balent's art grew more and more exaggerated with the 90's costume, until it started to feel a bit like a parody.

Now, an interesting facet of the armpit costume is that the more "complicated" torso can fail in some artists' hands because they struggle with texture and "substance" in the still generally tight clothing of heroes - a bit like how the Arkham games version of Catwoman's suit looked goofy in comic spin-offs, but worked better when the games could just map the costume out rather than require soemone to draw it.

Cooke even included in the design notes that the suit should be a bit baggy so it's easier to move and not skin tight sexy

I was actually surprised when I saw that note because I came after they skintight and unzip it all the time