The MCU and diversity

[bat22]

You were referring to Americans (you literally provided statistics) so you should have used African-American.

Calling black people "the blacks" without any sort of context does appear casually racist. Note, I am not calling you racist but without any additional context, it appears quite offensive.

Lastly, Wakandans don't exist. If you're referring to Africans, then call them Africans or Sub-Saharan Africans for black Africans.

If the subjects involved are all Americans, then I'll go with Blacks. If I'm faced with an international pool, then I'll call them Black Americans since not all dark-colored Americans today are generation 1 or 1.5 from Africa.

It's no more racist to call a Black American black than it is to call a White American white without regard for their Irish- / German- / Scottish-American status.

Political correctness is such a freaking joke because "people of color" usually refers to one color. And I have to wonder what was going through progressives' heads as this term was normalized, considering how it's basically "colored people" like I'd hear in all the segregated South media portrayals growing up. I wonder if my niece will one day date a colored boy? Thank you, progressives.

[Username taken]

If the subjects involved are all Americans, then I'll go with Blacks. If I'm faced with an international pool, then I'll call them Black Americans since not all dark-colored Americans today are generation 1 or 1.5 from Africa.

Political correctness is such a freaking joke because "people of color" usually refers to one color. And I have to wonder what was going through progressives' heads as this term was normalized, considering how it's basically "colored people" like I'd hear in all the segregated South media portrayals growing up. I wonder if my niece will one day date a colored boy? Thank you, progressives.

What exactly is your point here?

[jwatson]

You were referring to Americans (you literally provided statistics) so you should have used African-American.

Calling black people "the blacks" without any sort of context does appear casually racist. Note, I am not calling you racist but without any additional context, it appears quite offensive.

Lastly, Wakandans don't exist. If you're referring to Africans, then call them Africans or Sub-Saharan Africans for black Africans.

I do not consider myself african american. my father was born in jamacia (he did not come here until his 30s)and my mother was born in america so i am first generation Jamacian American(i was born in america). I can claim dual citizenship there and intend to do so. But i love and respect my african american brothers and sisters though most i know prefer just black. But this is just to say black isn't one thing and especially can't be "the blacks"

[Bunch of Coconuts]

I like how the diversity question is immediately framed by race and a breakdown by racial / ethnic percentages in the US. And yet, women make up roughly 50% if any population anywhere, yet that isn't even mentioned. I wonder what country's films women are supposed to watch for 50% representation?

I came here to make the point, but you beat me to it.

What exactly is your point here?

I think the point was: "colored people" doesn't really sound much different than "people of color."

Interesting article: https://www.cnn.com/2016/08/22/opini...ter/index.html

[Username taken]

I do not consider myself african american. my father was born in jamacia and my mother was born in america so i am first generation Jamacian American. I can claim dual citizenship there and intend to do so.

The person was referring to African-Americans hence his citing the population statistics.

You're basically supporting what I suggested he/she do.

[jwatson]

The person was referring to African-Americans hence his citing the population statistics.

You're basically supporting what I suggested he/she do.

maybe i missed something but i don't get how black in population statistics only equal african american but i've done very little reading or research on the topic to be honest so am an amateur at best speaking on it. But i know in my home area of the tristate Jamacian americans are recognized as a big demographic.

[bat22]

What exactly is your point here?

My more pleasant point is that "African" American is not necessarily the most accurate phrasing relating to a person's generational/cultural removal from their ancestors' country (or countries) of origin. Skin color is skin deep but less prone to accidental mislabeling.

[jwatson]

I like how the diversity question is immediately framed by race and a breakdown by racial / ethnic percentages in the US. And yet, women make up roughly 50% of any population anywhere, yet that isn't even mentioned. I wonder what country's films women are supposed to watch for 50% representation?

And i fully admit and submit i'm a black dude so while i will always stand for a woman's rights i'm going to need them to speak up too cause we got white women voting for trump, we got bird watcher attacker etc and then some so being on guard sometimes imma need to know when i can help cause i promise it's not something i'm willfully ignoring.

[bat22]

I think the point was: "colored people" doesn't really sound much different than "people of color."

Interesting article: https://www.cnn.com/2016/08/22/opini...ter/index.html

The two terms are practically sharing an apartment.

It would be more honest to use non-white people instead of "people of color" since the latter does not respect white as a color as well as non-blacks being secondary in its use.

[80sbaby]

Say you don't even understand what diversity means as you ridicule someone different than you.

Were they ridiculing him for being of a different nationality or for his semi-racist language/views? Take your time...

[80sbaby]

I feel like the MCU would do better with diverse characters because they aren't stagnant. Unlike the comics, the MCU can move forward so the diverse characters wouldn't have to be stuck as understudies.

I'm hoping Riri gets a better first impression than CW2. I haven't seen Wakanda forever yet.

The new iron fist is a bit weak as a character but I never clicked with Danny. So I'm hoping the new guy gets a better showing.

Shang-Chi actor Simu Liu wrote a tv pitch for Sunfire that I'm hoping gets made one day. I'm hoping the X-men does more with its diverse characters this time around. Bishop, Darwin and Storm were all wasted in the Fox movies.

I'm hoping Goliath gets more of a showcase. Laurence Fishburne is too good an actor to waste in a bit role. Plus Goliath had a nephew that took over the mantle so that fits the legacy theme phase 4 has.

https://www.deviantart.com/lucasbolt...2015-544091484

I'm hoping Miles gets to team up with America Chavez and Franklin and Valeria Richards like this fanart.

I agree with this. The fact that the MCU isn't just reusing the exact same characters means we can get real growth and a much more diverse "main cast" than we do in the comics and I love it.

[80sbaby]

Diversity is pointless. It is right to ask for rights for minorities and make sure they have the same rights and obligations than any other citizen. But representation within works of fiction, that's neither here nor there. It changes nothing in the real world. Adding characters of diverse backgrounds to a work makes it relatable because the world itself is diverse, yes. But when we go beyond that point, when we ask for a work set in the US to include more [insert politically correct word] than the real US has, then that's completely out of place and has to stop.

This is objectively false and history proves you wrong. Showing diverse casts normalizes them, which definitely affects real life.

And why does it have to stop? What harm is it causing, exactly?

[mace11]

The info i post below was posted in another thread.

This came out 2 years ago and before phase 3 ended.
The Marvel Cinematic Universe is 61% White, But Does That Matter

The Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU) is densely populated. The blockbuster Hollywood franchise now spans 20 movies that tie together into one overarching narrative, all leading up to next May’s Avengers 4. But each of these films also has its own self-contained story with an intricate web of allies and enemies, and it can get hard to keep track of them all.

However, as the industry grows increasingly abuzz with greater demand for diversity and inclusion, it’s maybe wise to ask just how diverse this franchise is. Moviegoers across the nation and the world flood Marvel screenings yearly. But do the actors on screen match the sheer diversity of those watching? Let's find out.

Firstly, a few words on methodology. To do this, we'll be adding up all the MCU actors (movies only) who have played roles of narrative significance in the MCU. The total set of those actors comes to 193 people. On top of this we'll also separate from within that group all the actors playing major brand tentpole characters, such as Iron Man, Red Skull, and Christine Palmer. The ethnic/racial categories here are partly informed by the U.S. Census' categories, and partly by industry categorizations when discussing diversity. Lastly, we'll be considering the racial/ethnic background of the actors and not the characters they play.

Actors of white or Caucasian descent are the majority at 61% of the entire group. This means that more than three out of every five significant actors are white. When we consider just the Major Characters that number spikes to 69%, as a whopping 56 of the 81 major actors fit in this category. Many of the franchise’s most important characters are white, including Robert Downey Jr.’s Iron Man (Iron Man), Chris Evans’ Captain America (Captain America: The First Avenger), Chris Hemsworth’s Thor (Thor), and many others.

The complete demographic distribution of actors playing Significant Characters in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. ANHAR KARIM

Our next statistic shows that just 20% of the MCU's actors belong to the African American/Black category. While there were 117 actors in the former category, there are only 39 in this one, meaning that there are exactly three times as many white actors than black actors. When we turn to look at only the franchise’s Major Characters, the statistic actually drops to 19%, representing only 15 people. Incidentally, a large portion of the actors in this group, 41% of them, belong to the world of Black Panther. If we were to remove all those individuals, this would drop the overall MCU representation of African American/Black actors down to 11%.

The next biggest category, at 8% overall, is the “Multiracial” subgroup. That is, actors who could not meaningfully be placed in any one category. Eight actors in this group play Major Characters in the franchise, giving us an 11% cut of the total pool of major players in the series. This overall category includes Vin Diesel’s Groot (Guardians of the Galaxy), Zendaya’s Michelle/MJ (Spider-Man: Homecoming), and Taika Waititi’s Korg (Thor: Ragnarok).

Moving on, East Asians represent only 5% of the universe. There is only one major character in this subgroup, that being Benedict Wong’s Wong (Doctor Strange). Others include Randall Park's Jimmy Woo (Ant-Man & The Wasp), Jacob Batalon’s Ned Leeds (Spider-Man: Homecoming), and Claudia Kim’s Dr. Helen Cho (Avengers: Age of Ultron). The next category to consider is the Spanish/Hispanic/Latino subgroup. Actors belonging in this category come in at just 4% of the entire group. This means that for every 25 actors one may meet in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, only one would belong to this category. In this group are Benicio Del Toro’s The Collector (Guardians of the Galaxy) and Maximiliano Hernández’s Jasper Sitwell (Thor). A surprising finding here is that there is not a single Major Character represented within this subgroup. In fact, the Major Character share remains at 0% for the next four categories.
Next we come to South Asian representation. The sole actors here are Faran Tahir as Raza (Iron Man), Bernard White as Councilman Nagendra Singh (Captain America: The Winter Soldier), and Divian Ladwa’s Uzman (Ant-Man & The Wasp). In each of these cases the actor played a very small role.


The distribution of actors playing Major Characters in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. ANHAR KARIM

The Middle East/Arab category goes even lower. Just two actors of Arab descent appear in this franchise. These are Shaun Toub as Ho Yinsen and Sayed Badreya as Abu Bakaar, both from the film Iron Man. However, it is important to note that Ho Yinsen, while not a Major Character, is nonetheless very important as he inspired Tony's turn toward heroism. This is an example of a nuanced depiction of an Arab in a climate bereft of it. That being said, a lot of this positive work is undone by the otherwise stereotypical depiction of Arab violence. Additionally, Yinsen’s only significant Arab counterpart is Sayed Badreya’s generic Arab terrorist (a role that was hard on Badreya).

Upon arriving at the last two categories, we find ourselves empty-handed. Not a single Significant or Major actor in the Marvel Cinematic Universe can be identified with the Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander or Native American/Alaskan Native categories. Small universe, isn’t it?
So is the Marvel Cinematic Universe diverse enough to represent its viewers? The answer is nuanced. Again, the overall representation of significant actors who are white was at 61%. While this is very much the majority, the U.S. Census estimates the representation of whites in the United States to be 60.7%.

In this regard, the MCU’s depiction of white representation is more or less spot on. Continuing on with this Census report, the Black/African American category is put at 13.4% which, compared to the MCU’s 20%, would mean that Marvel is actually over representing this subgroup.

The MCU also over-represents those of a multiracial background at 11% while the true number is only 2.7%. The Census does not separate between East and South Asian, however, if we combine both categories in this study we get a total Asian representation of 6%, very close to the Census’ 5.8%. Then, while the MCU gives us nothing for both the Native American/Alaskan Native and Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander categories, the Census estimates them to be at 1.3% and 0.2%, respectively.

However, one statistic is shamefully off. the MCU’s representation of Spanish/Hispanic/Latino actors stands at only 4%. Meanwhile, the Census tells us that this subgroup actually accounts for 18.1% of the population. It is astounding that when Spanish is the second most widely spoken language in the United States and when Spanish speakers play a crucially important role in the nation’s culture and history, that the MCU has so drastically ignored this subgroup. The popular YouTube series Honest Trailers even parodied the absurdity of this by naming Michael Peña’s Luis (Ant-Man) the “only Latino in the MCU.”

But should the goal of the MCU really be just to reflect the diversity of American audiences? These films are global cash machines with devout fans in every corner of the globe. Additionally, the Marvel heroes themselves have, over twenty movies, caused trouble in Germany, Russia, India, Afghanistan, China, Mexico, and many more places. Now, there is really no reliable source of global racial/ethnic distribution data, however, it’s a safe bet that the world’s share of Caucasian/White individuals is far lower than 61% and that its share of African/Black and Asian individuals is much higher. In this regard, then, perhaps the MCU does have some work to do.

These statistics cannot change the fact that these stories are loved by fans the world over. And they shouldn't. The call for diversity doesn't stem from a hatred of the genre. It stems from a love of these stories, and a desire to connect closer with them. Superhero movies, done right, inspire a zeal to be heroes ourselves, to stand up against odds we know should defeat us, and to fight against them anyway. We are supposed to see our better selves in these vigilantes, people we could become. And seeing that dream, and being inspired to act on it, is so much easier when the character on screen looks back at us like a reflection in the mirror.

Marvel Studios knows this, and they’ve made positive steps forward by greenlighting Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Black Widow’s upcoming solo film, and even hinting that Kamala Khan may get in on the fun too. The executives in charge have acknowledged the need for more diversity, and all signs show that they are tackling it. But when millions of people are watching these movies and learning from them what heroes are supposed to look like, I’d give them a push to move just a little bit faster.

For more thoughts on superheroes and the entertainment industry, check out the rest of my articles, follow me on Twitter, and subscribe on YouTube.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/anharka...h=3b10d3ab4482

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...The-MU/page268

[mace11]

The above left out the inhumans show that had great diversity as well and it had native hawaiians in the cast as well but not in the main cast.


Yes the tv mcu shows count(non canon and canon).So it's good data.
Anyway more on this below.

[mace11]

It's not canon to mcu films and disney plus marvel shows but it's still mcu.


Diversity in the MCU: Marvel TV Was Always Ahead of the Curve
While Marvel Studios should be praised for going in a more diverse direction, it shouldn't be forgotten that Marvel TV was the trailblazer.

Following the success of Marvel Studios blockbusters like Black Panther and Captain Marvel, as well as the announcement of such Phase Four projects as Black Widow, Eternals, Shang Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings and Thor: Love and Thunder, it’s safe to say the Marvel Cinematic Universe is heading in a more diverse and inclusive direction. This, of course, is great. However, with these announcements gaining traction and the word “first” being thrown around a lot, it appears some have already forgot that Marvel Television has been pushing for diversity for quite some time now.

For instance, fans of ABC’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. have already taken exception to posts claiming Phase Four will feature Marvel’s first gay hero, Asian hero and Latina superhero leader, citing S.H.I.E.L.D. characters Joey Gutierrez, Quake and Yo-Yo, respectively, as a retort.

What’s more, they’re not the only ones. Natalia Cordova herself, who plays Yo-Yo/Elena Rodriguez on the ABC series, openly -- and to be frank, rightly -- criticized an article declaring Salma Hayek to be Marvel’s first Mexican heroine for her role in Eternals. After all, if you were actually the first to accomplish something, it stands to reason that seeing someone else getting the credit would irk you just a bit. Furthermore, Yo-Yo isn't even Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.’s only major Hispanic hero, as the show also introduced Gabriel Luna’s Robbie Reyes/Ghost Rider to the MCU, with the character set to star in a new solo series on Hulu.

Speaking of Hulu, while Eternals is certainly slated to feature a diverse superhero unit in and of itself, the titular heroes of Runaways arguably beat them to the punch in that respect. In addition to being a mostly female team, the Runaways are comprised of an African American leader in Rhenzy Feliz’s Alex Wilder, another Latina hero in Allegra Acosta’s Molly Hernandez, not to mention an Asian American heroine in Lyrica Okano’s Nico Minoru: who is also in a same-sex relationship with Virginia Gardner’s Karolina Dean, making Nico and Karolina -- not Thor's Valkyrie -- the MCU’s first leading LGBTQ+ heroes.

All of that said, the true testament to Marvel TV’s commitment to diversity lies within its Netflix dramas. The Marvel/Netflix project kicked off with Daredevil, which gave us the MCU’s first disabled leading hero in Matt Murdock. While including him here is admittedly a bit of a stretch -- seeing as how series star Charlie Cox isn't actually blind -- the point stands that Daredevil is one of Marvel's most iconic disabled heroes. Cox's version was also arguably the most prominent disabled character on television for a time, with the actor even being honored by the American Foundation for the Blind for his performance.

Daredevil’s first season was followed up by Jessica Jones, which -- alongside ABC’s Agent Carter -- was one of Marvel’s earliest female-led releases, and was unapologetic in its feminist edge. Seeing as how Jessica Jones came out before Runaways, the show also offered one of Marvel’s earliest on-screen examples of LGBTQ+ representation well before Avengers: Endgame’s group therapy scene. While not a superhero, Jeri Hogarth’s relationship drama was a major plot thread in the series’ first season, meaning her sexuality was not something only mentioned in passing.

Jessica Jones Season 1 also introduced Mike Colter’s Luke Cage to the MCU. While certainly not Marvel’s first major Black on-screen hero, Luke was the first to star in his own major solo project with a predominantly Black cast, with Netflix’s Luke Cage uniting the likes of Colter, Mahershala Ali, Alfre Woodard, Simone Missick and Marvel Netflix mainstay Rosario Dawson, among others. The show was also sure to address political topics relevant to Black communities in a streetwise manner, which certainly befit what the character of Luke Cage represents.
On that note, you can’t really talk about the legacy of Luke Cage without also discussing Iron Fist at some point. While controversy surrounding Finn Jones’ casting as Danny Rand ran rampant when Iron Fist Season 1 launched on Netflix, the fact remains that the series' cast still featured a strong Asian American presence, which included Jessica Henwick’s Colleen Wing, who -- like Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.’s Quake -- was one of the MCU's first major Asian American heroes.


Additionally, while Marvel initially caught flak for deciding to stick with the comics and cast a white actor as Iron Fist, by the time The Defenders miniseries hit Netflix, it was clear there was a reason for it beyond simple faithfulness to the source material. The iconic duo of Luke Cage and Danny Rand uniting in live-action for the first time offered Netflix yet another opportunity to address relevant political issues -- specifically pertaining to privilege -- as the two vastly different characters worked out their problems, slowly growing from rivals to teammates and, eventually, best friends (a process aided by the fact that Jones and Colter share top-notch chemistry.) Moreover, all the aforementioned elements of Marvel’s Netflix lineup as a whole converged in The Defenders, making it arguably one of Marvel’s most diverse ensembles to date.

Make no mistake, the purpose of this piece is not to chastise Marvel Studios for being late to the party, so to speak. On the contrary, the studio should be praised for committing to the idea of diversity in such a strong way for its Phase Four slate and beyond. There’s always room for more inclusion, and a lot of talented individuals have been brought into the fold, which is definitely a plus. Rather, this is simply about giving due credit to Marvel’s TV shows -- and more importantly, the people behind them -- who walked so their big screen counterparts could run. Because credit doesn't appear to be something they're getting enough of, if the Natalia Cordova situation is anything to go on.

Something important that should be noted, however, is that while it can certainly be frustrating for both the fans and stars of Marvel TV to see countless articles proudly cataloguing all the Marvel “firsts” Phase Four will bring to the table, it’s not hard to see why such a perspective exists.

After all, as great as a lot of the aforementioned TV shows are, the fact remains that the movies are always going to reach a wider, more mainstream audience. Hence, why Marvel Studios fully committing to diversity for Phase Four is such a big deal. Films like Eternals, Shang-Chi and Thor: Love and Thunder are going to reach a lot more people than Marvel’s TV programs ever could, as well as afford plenty of new opportunities to underrepresented actors and filmmakers.

Marvel Studios is getting ready to do diversity in a big way, to be sure. Still, that doesn’t change the fact that Marvel Television did it first. Unfortunately, there is an observable trend of the contributions by Marvel’s small screen division being swept under the rug. While this is certainly a shame, it’s not exactly surprising. Despite the TV shows technically being considered part of the MCU, it’s become increasingly obvious over the years that anything not directly made by Marvel Studios doesn’t really get a proper seat at the table (though, that is a much more complex discussion for a different time).

In turn, it’s up to us as fans to never forget the push for diversity and inclusion made by Marvel Television, which has arguably paved the way for the future of Marvel Studios by proving that, yes, it is something a lot of people want.

https://www.cbr.com/mcu-diversity-marvel-tv-first/
The last non canon mcu show was helstrom not mention above with diversity as well.