The MCU and diversity

[phonogram12]

Also they are talking about Jenna Ortega for White Tiger, Ava Ayala, in DD:BA...but I have not heard anything about the original White Tiger, Hector Ayala, who was her Ava's older brother? Why not start with Marvel's first Hispanic super hero and then hand off to her as a successor?

Why wait, though? Why would this be preferable?

[Chris0013]

Why wait, though? Why would this be preferable?

Because it honors the original character.

[80sbaby]

I seriously want to see Marvel have more diversity in their movies...but not by sacrificing traditionally white/male characters. Just introduce the traditionally diverse characters as th3ey appeared int the comics.

Look how badly they mangled Taskmaster in Black Widow. Marvel could have used any number of female villains to fight against Natasha and her family. Give us a more accurate TM for the movie and also bring in someone like Snapdragon who in the comics beat Natasha in their first fight.

Also they are talking about Jenna Ortega for White Tiger, Ava Ayala, in DD:BA...but I have not heard anything about the original White Tiger, Hector Ayala, who was her Ava's older brother? Why not start with Marvel's first Hispanic super hero and then hand off to her as a successor?

So Taskmaster being female isn't what messed up the character. Had they made her male, but kept everything else the exact same, then you'd still have a problem with it. Race, sexuality or gender bending a character has NEVER made the character or film worse.

[Chris0013]

So Taskmaster being female isn't what messed up the character. Had they made her male, but kept everything else the exact same, then you'd still have a problem with it. Race, sexuality or gender bending a character has NEVER made the character or film worse.

I had a problem with the whole package. No personality, no wise ass comments, no money grubbing mercenary. But yes...the gender swap was at he top of the list. And this is just my opinion...but it seems like they did it so they could say "look...Natasha didn't really kill an innocent little girl to get at her evil father...but pay no attention to the fact she was willing to and left the little girl horribly disfigured."

It is my feeling that character adapted into the MCU should be as true to the comics as possible.

[phonogram12]

Because it honors the original character.

That's for the comic book readers. The MCU is trying to reach a broader audience than that. Would there be an actual reason that would benefit the story? That's the only thing that should really matter. If so, I would be all for it.

[skyvolt2000]

It is my feeling that character adapted into the MCU should be as true to the comics as possible.

If they did that how would that benefit all the POC, LGBTQA and females who are in stories where they got killed or did little to nothing?

Or in most cases were not even in the stories in question that some would want to have adapted?

There is a reason we got some of these changes.

[phonogram12]

If they did that how would that benefit all the POC, LGBTQA and females who are in stories where they got killed or did little to nothing?

Or in most cases were not even in the stories in question that some would want to have adapted?

There is a reason we got some of these changes.

Agreed on every word. The world's evolved past the times many of these characters were created (for good reason). The characters and the mythology should evolve with them.

[80sbaby]

I had a problem with the whole package. No personality, no wise ass comments, no money grubbing mercenary. But yes...the gender swap was at he top of the list. And this is just my opinion...but it seems like they did it so they could say "look...Natasha didn't really kill an innocent little girl to get at her evil father...but pay no attention to the fact she was willing to and left the little girl horribly disfigured."

It is my feeling that character adapted into the MCU should be as true to the comics as possible.

Well if you're a "purist" then I get that but you also wouldn't be the target audience. While your qualifier is fine for you, specifically, it's not really helpful in discussions that are broader in scope. Especially as it pertains to storytelling.

[80sbaby]

Also I find the whole "purist" thing to be a bit hypocritical considering these people seem fine with all the other liberties taken with these stories.

[Ascended]

Not reading all these pages. Read the first one and that was enough, but....

It's a matter of perception at this point right? The MCU started with a bunch of white dudes, they're the stars that built the universe as we know it, and since they were the original leads they've got mountains more screen time and development.

Marvel only really began knocking on representation's door in 2018, barely five years ago. Ike, or Hollywood in general, are to blame maybe, or maybe those characters just seemed the best choices at the time, who knows. But over phase 4, we've probably had more PoC, women, and LBGT characters added than in the entire Infinity Saga. The MCU always had those characters (well, not so much the LBGT) but usually as secondary players like War Machine and Falcon, or as supporting cast like Heimdal. Now they're starting to headline and play bigger roles, but they don't yet have the screen time and development that Tony, Steve, etc., got.

Things still feel unbalanced because of that discrepancy. Right now I'd wager (and I'm not stopping to count) that we have at least as many minority characters leading content as we do white dudes, but it doesn't feel like it because so many of the minority characters are still building up their appearances. Iron Man remains more popular than Shang Chi despite Tony being gone four years now (I think?) and his last solo film being a decade ago, but maybe after Simu has played the role for ten years and appeared in a dozen different films, people will feel differently.

And I'm gonna be honest. I don't know if any character, regardless of what they look like or who they are, will ever seem the equal to Tony, Steve, and the other founding Avengers. In the MCU, those characters have gained a certain halo that elevates them a little above everyone else. And because of that, the balance might always feel just a tiny bit askew.

[Chris0013]

If they did that how would that benefit all the POC, LGBTQA and females who are in stories where they got killed or did little to nothing?

Or in most cases were not even in the stories in question that some would want to have adapted?

There is a reason we got some of these changes.

Explain to me how actually advocating for more representation by actually wanting a Hispanic male like the original White Tiger adapted to the MCU would not be a benefit? Yes he did have a tragic ending...but that allows them to go deeper with the story and with Ava's backstory and motivation.

Or using Snapdragon, who is Japanese, as a lead villain would not benefit? She has been around for years and not killed off yet.

[phonogram12]

Also I find the whole "purist" thing to be a bit hypocritical considering these people seem fine with all the other liberties taken with these stories.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure if purists had their way the MCU would've died quite awhile ago.

[mace11]

If ABC counts, thanks to Agents of SHIELD, POC like Melinda May and 'Mack' Mackenzie probably have a ton of screentime.

Yeah if the report counts the past mcu shows(they left the non canon shows out and counted the phase 4 ones) then those from the netflix,freeform,and abc mcu shows for example would have more screen time then ironman or anyone from the mcu movies and phase 4 shows.
Agents of shield is the longest lasting marvel show ever and there is not going to be another one like that again.

[Colossus1980]

I'd be really shocked when the Fantastic Four finally appear onscreen it will be four straight white people. Race and sexual orientation will be changed onscreen for diversity.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

I had a problem with the whole package. No personality, no wise ass comments, no money grubbing mercenary. But yes...the gender swap was at he top of the list. And this is just my opinion...but it seems like they did it so they could say "look...Natasha didn't really kill an innocent little girl to get at her evil father...but pay no attention to the fact she was willing to and left the little girl horribly disfigured."

It is my feeling that character adapted into the MCU should be as true to the comics as possible.

It could have been a "little boy" instead and the issues you should reasonably have with the character would remain the same.

Yet you double-downed on the gender issue as the main point you didn't like the character.