Which is the origins of the S logo do you like better?

[achilles]

I prefer option a.), an S made by the Kents.

If it has to be b.), then I prefer it being a family crest only and does not literally translate to hope. I do get a kick out of Lois in Man of Steel (Snyder) telling Clark after his "hope" explanation, "well here it's an S."

I agree about the caveat to option "B"; there is a history on Earth of such things, why not on Krypton? Have Houses with their own crests that mean nothing in particular save as an identifier for that House. Its a moot point by now though, as the movies and subsequent comics have firmly put the "S" into option "B". And unfortunately making it mean "hope". Which House on Krypton had "Slime Worm" as the meaning of it's crest?

[ironman2978]

I think I prefer Kryptonian family s. I like that Clark use the crest as a connection to his heritage as opposed to a boast of his abilities.

As for the symbol of hope, eh. It shouldn't stand for hope. I think it should be a call to action and self-affirmation. In my interpretation of reading Birthright, Clark interpreted it at hope in his reading of Kryptonian text but it wasn’t something outright confirmed until later adaptions . I like it being the House of El crest . I feel like the feeling of hope should be through the actions, not stating it 100 times and forcing Clark to view the symbol as a literal definition of Hope . Then it loses its meaning.

I really like Morrison's read from Action Comics where Pa just says, "whatever the symbol means it comes down to what you make of it” and it was just a symbol of cultural heritage that Clark wanted to connect with/embrace to point that he wore it as a sign of him stepping up. He made the choice, not being told to wear it or because it was a symbol of hope for Krypton and eventually Earth.

A.
The El crest was neat in the ‘78 movie, but it should’ve remained its own thing.

The Byrne S origin you mentioned, was perfect. It linked Lois and Clark together from day one.

I mean so did every origin where Lois sees the Kryptonian symbol and she coins the name “Superman”. Including the 78 movie.

[Thor-Ul]

I am also for the S being a family crest. The fact than looks like an S is a coincidence.
Now the meaning, ok. It could mean hope, but also should have other meanings. On earth different symbols have several meanings depending on the context and the other symbolsnext to them. Same with the Superman shield.

[Ascended]

I kind of favor the original Golden Age origin honestly; Clark invents a fabric as durable as he is, makes a costume inspired by circus strongmen, and an "S" because he's got swagger enough to call himself Superman and wear the name on his chest.

There's a certain charm to the House emblem origin too, and that's the one I favor going with in most versions. Is it a little hokey, that the House of El's emblem is really just a funny 's' thing? Sure. But it's pretty damn hokey than an alien would look like a normal white dude too.

And the thing with it meaning hope? Not at all necessary, but sure, if that's a dead horse we have to keep kicking. I'd just prefer to say that the "S" means hope, and then just not talk about it anymore. Let Clark emulate hope by his actions, not his outfit.

The mobius strip concept is utter perfection, but requires the Legion, or at least some kind of time travel, and doesn't always fit the kind of Superman story being told.

Only thing I take a hard stance on is this: the Kents did not make or design the costume. You want to make sure that kids don't get into Superman? Tell them that his mommy made his costume for him. Wanna make sure that Clark doesn't have enough agency in his own origin? Make his parents set out his clothes for him, like it's picture day at school.

If the costume is Kryptonian, he's honoring the legacy and history of his dead species (as long as Clark doesn't become Superman because Jor-El said to). If Martha and Johnathan make it, Clark's just....lame. And as adults, we can look at this and think its quaint and cute, and those of us who've lost our parents would probably love having something like that to remember them by, but there's no way to spin this where people go "oh wow, that's cool!"

....and for the record, my wife makes a lot of clothes and my daughter loves it. But that's for her, she'd expect something more....epic....for a superhero.

[Jim Kelly]

The 1960s comics are a different flavour from today's comics. But just because they taste different, that doesn't mean they don't taste good.

One thing I admire about those comics is that they're much better thought out than today's comics, where the writers stumble along contradicting previous stories and then erasing their work when it all gets too much for them.

Back when comics had letter columns, the editors were forced to answer questions from pestering fans. And if they couldn't explain something in the mythos, they would often write another story to clear up a murky detail. This sometimes led to very convoluted back stories, but it was good to know that it all made sense once all the facts were in. And a person collected the comics to know all the facts.

The Kents didn't make Superboy's costume for him. It was a cooperative effort between Clark, Martha and Jonathan. The clothes and blankets that Kal-El arrived in were all indestructible. Only the Boy of Steel was able to take them apart and reassemble them into his new super-suit. Martha and Jonathan contributed ideas but they didn't make the costume. This anecdote advances the wholesome idea that Clark was raised by two loving parents, who helped and encouraged him in his mission.

Something that Grant Morrison said at the San Diego Comic-Con just before the New 52 really bugged me (and put me off buying the New 52). Grant made a derisive comment about Clark wearing his mommie's pyjamas. This bugged me because Morrison knew it wasn't true--Grant was only saying it to play up to the audience, so they would laugh and think Grant Morrison's cool. Yet Morrison admires those old Weisinger comics and has used their ideas in the past. Grant knows that Superman isn't wearing jammies that his mother made for him!

One problem with the family crest is it forces the shield to always look the same and doesn't allow for stylistic changes. If Clark was always wearing a crest of the House of El, then he couldn't be wearing completely different shields on his chest. The shape of the shield and the style of "S" would always have to look like what they had on Krypton or else Superman would be off brand.

The first ACTION COMICS cover art has Supes wearing something that looks like a badge on his chest. While inside the comic, his emblem is a triangle. It takes some time before Clark lands on wearing a pentagon. In the perfect continuity, I'd like to think that all these different designs were worn by the Man of Steel at various times in his career. This makes the most sense if he's not trying to copy a pre-existing design and just making it up as he goes along--taking apart his uniform and reassembling it in a new way, whenever the fancy strikes him.

[JBatmanFan05]

I kind of favor the original Golden Age origin honestly; Clark invents a fabric as durable as he is, makes a costume inspired by circus strongmen, and an "S" because he's got swagger enough to call himself Superman and wear the name on his chest.

Yeah, I guess there's a lot to like in the GA origin I suppose (though Clark inventing a brand new fabric might be a tad too much even though he's super intelligent and all).

The first ACTION COMICS cover art has Supes wearing something that looks like a badge on his chest. While inside the comic, his emblem is a triangle. It takes some time before Clark lands on wearing a pentagon. In the perfect continuity, I'd like to think that all these different designs were worn by the Man of Steel at various times in his career. This makes the most sense if he's not trying to copy a pre-existing design and just making it up as he goes along--taking apart his uniform and reassembling it in a new way, whenever the fancy strikes him.

This is a very compelling set of points to me. And yeah, I guess I do share your idea of the "perfect continuity" where he wore all the costumes. And yeah, if I were to side with "all the costumes", then that would seem to require moving away from the "family crest" origin aspect.


I wonder if multiple origins for the logo/costume might alleviate foreclosing on certain origins. Maybe Clark solely constructed his first costume(s) along G.Age lines, and then maybe others (Kents, or his real parents via the Fortress) aided him in creating later versions of costume where his Kryptonian swaddle and/or Kryptonian shapes were perhaps used/incorporated.

It's kinda amazing how this costume/logo origin question is one of the toughest in Superman fandom that I've encountered. A variety of good valid ideas from different comics, Donner, etc.

[manwhohaseverything]

Yeah, I guess there's a lot to like in the GA origin I suppose (though Clark inventing a brand new fabric might be a tad too much even though he's super intelligent and all).

Clark's own hair can be used for making a new material for the costume... It's won't be out of left field.

[Jim Kelly]

Clark's own hair can be used for making a new material for the costume... It's won't be out of left field.

Or Krypto? Coast Salish wove spun yarn from woolly dogs.

[SuperX]

House of El in kryptonianesse on Krypton,and superman everywhere after he debuts.no extra meaning

[Pete26]

I prefer the S for Superman.

[Lairston]

I prefer it being an S. I always thought the family crest thing is ridiculous. Every time they show Kryptonese there's nothing English about it but we're supposed to believe the S is different so he can call himself Superman...

[manwhohaseverything]

Or Krypto? Coast Salish wove spun yarn from woolly dogs.

If krypto allows brushing,that is..mine makes a fuss..

On that note,I wonder if that sun eater sheds skin..That would something clark making sun nuclear fusion absorbstion cloak.Ideal i don't care for the sun explanation.It just makes superman more fantasy than scifi.if i am gonna have a sun absorption ability for superman it would a mutualism like corals and algae.Clark can't absorb solar radiation(come on..not enough surface area).It doesn't make him uber powerful,just gives him sustenance for work,healing..etc.He needs help with that from plant species .His body,muscles,bones..etc is more springy underneath the skin as well like bugs explanation.He would be a huge dude due to earths gravity being weak.But,he needs to work constantly to keep the bone density things like that.A more scifi superman than fantasy supes would be something cool..

[marhawkman]

I like the idea of it being a family crest but the whole "it stands for hope" thing is a bit much.

Agreed. the idea of Superman's thingy he came to Earth in having the crest on it somewhere is a good one.

[The Frog Bros]

Re: Kryptonese to English translation in general... playing devil's advocate, who even says that there would always necessarily be a direct translation, a la "hope?" Like, many other languages do not have a 1:1 translation to English. Especially that of an alien culture.

[Jim Kelly]

The thing is in the 1970s they already established that in old Kryptonese "Kal-El" translates as "Star Child." And I always assumed that -El was the star part of that. Star makes more sense as a family name than Child (Julia Child not withstanding). Now if you're into the Tarot, then you could say that the Star and the Hope are analogous, but still I like the Star better.

Of course, the real origin of -El is the -el in Jerry Siegel's name. Siegel in German derives from the Latin sigillum (seal). However, El in Hebrew means God (also Might or Power)--which is why so many Biblical names end in el, like Michael and Gabriel. And the proto-Indo-European root of El might be sawel, from which comes Sol or Sun in English.