Which is the origins of the S logo do you like better?

[manwhohaseverything]

I thought el was a later thing which they ran with seeing all the religious subtext and layers.Siegel and shuster gave L like jor L and nira Q..On a side note,kryptonians being future humans that left the planet and adapated to a new world Might explain why clark looks like us.I also liked jor L as "ace sleuth".An awesome change would be lara being the ship maker and jor L battling nira q's forces,zod..etc.The ship going through a wormhole traveling through time and space to arrive on earth.

[marhawkman]

The thing is in the 1970s they already established that in old Kryptonese "Kal-El" translates as "Star Child." And I always assumed that -El was the star part of that. Star makes more sense as a family name than Child (Julia Child not withstanding). Now if you're into the Tarot, then you could say that the Star and the Hope are analogous, but still I like the Star better.

Of course, the real origin of -El is the -el in Jerry Siegel's name. Siegel in German derives from the Latin sigillum (seal). However, El in Hebrew means God (also Might or Power)--which is why so many Biblical names end in el, like Michael and Gabriel. And the proto-Indo-European root of El might be sawel, from which comes Sol or Sun in English.

Reminds me of the difference in Japanese between "Sakura" and "Sakurako". "ko" is a suffix meaning "girl". Both names are quite common in kids but in adults the ko suffix often gets dropped.

[Ascended]

Yeah, I guess there's a lot to like in the GA origin I suppose (though Clark inventing a brand new fabric might be a tad too much even though he's super intelligent and all).

Don't see how it'd be a stretch. Real people have invented invisibility cloaks so I see no reason a super evolved, hyper smart alien can't make something that won't rip.

This is just the double standard we've seen where powerless human guys like Bruce Wayne and Michael Holt can build and invent anything, no matter how stupidly fantastical it is, but anyone with powers can't be allowed to be equally intelligent and inventive.

It's kinda amazing how this costume/logo origin question is one of the toughest in Superman fandom that I've encountered. A variety of good valid ideas from different comics, Donner, etc.

It's because he's the first. Every hero who comes after can have a costume and logo and needs no explanation for it beyond "Well that's what Superman does, it's just office attire for the 'superhero' gig." But Clark has to develop believable reasons for why he wears what he does....and it's hard to justify a skintight costume made out of bright colors and a cape if there's no precedence to follow.

Oh, someone mentioned how the shield being a family crest means it can never be changed. That's not true of real world family crests, and certainly doesn't have to be true of an alien. Maybe there are cultures around the world where the family crest isn't changed, maybe some families don't, but at least among the Scots my clan descended from, each generation would tweak things a bit. My crest is three crowns and a cross, and all of that means specific stuff and has to stay there, but over the years the details have changed as new family heads have come in an added their own tweaks or removed older ones.

[JBatmanFan05]

Don't see how it'd be a stretch. Real people have invented invisibility cloaks so I see no reason a super evolved, hyper smart alien can't make something that won't rip.

This is just the double standard we've seen where powerless human guys like Bruce Wayne and Michael Holt can build and invent anything, no matter how stupidly fantastical it is, but anyone with powers can't be allowed to be equally intelligent and inventive.

I mean you have a fair point I admit. But I don't see anything too criminally wrong with not necessarily associating (or wanting to associate) "inventor" overly much with Superman (a career journalist). It's like, does DC need more inventor heavy type scientist superheroes? Superman I think maybe might possibly just not quite go that far for the costume or maybe he just shouldn't have to (because it's fiction and he wouldn't have to go that far if some writer/editor decides so).

I agree that your point probably aligns with I think Morrison's Renaissance man conception of a (Silver-ish) Superman (which I love) and some classic takes on Superman like at least that first version of Golden Age Superman. And perhaps Superman inventing the fabric fits really well with his father having been a scientist.

You definitely make a strong point on the matter and maybe I like the idea more than I realized when I typed that kneejerk reaction.

[DochaDocha]

If Superman invented an indestructible fabric, would he share it with Batman? Though I can just imagine tons of fans getting in a tizzy and being like, "Superman couldn't invent something before Batman!!!!!"

[JBatmanFan05]

If Superman invented an indestructible fabric, would he share it with

Forget Batman, would he share it with the world? You'd invite such questions if Superman invented some brand new fabric that could have far-reaching global applications.

[DochaDocha]

Forget Batman, would he share it with the world? You'd invite such questions if Superman invented some brand new fabric that could have far-reaching applications.

Yeah, that's why I didn't like the idea of Wakanda sharing their Vibranium and technology with the rest of the world at the end of Black Panther. Where exactly do you go from there? Do you make the rest of the world more futuristic? It's fine for a comic book, but for the movies that are supposed to be slightly less seeped in fantasy, it's a tough thing to balance. Iron Man 2 may have anticipated this which is why Tony tried to keep his tech proprietary.

[Ascended]

You definitely make a strong point on the matter and maybe I like the idea more than I realized when I typed that kneejerk reaction.

Thanks. And yeah, this mostly works with a smarter, Morrison-esque Clark, less so one who is just an average idiot who happens to have powers. But to my mind, if you're writing Clark as a "normal guy with powers" then you're doing it wrong anyway.

Forget Batman, would he share it with the world? You'd invite such questions if Superman invented some brand new fabric that could have far-reaching global applications.

But we already have that question in front of us with the Fortress.

Forget a durable fabric, Clark has the answer to almost every big problem humanity faces sitting around the arctic, collecting dust. Why hasn't he shared that tech and knowledge with us? The stuff he's collected, from Krypton to New Genesis to Rann and Thanagar, could solve the energy crisis, world hunger, cure tons of diseases.....

This is a question that basically every hero brings up if you think about it too much. They all have knowledge, skills, and/or resources that could change the world in huge, fundamental ways....but don't. Clark inventing a fabric that won't leave him naked after a fight is such a minor issue in this regard it's not even on the list.

Now that I think about it.....a durable fabric isn't even a good business model. Presumably your production costs would be high, and your customers will only have to buy from you once because they'll never wear out or ruin their clothes. You'd just end up with a warehouse full of jeans that're hard and expensive to make, that no one wants to buy because they already own one pair, and that's all they need.

[JBatmanFan05]

One benefit of the whole Superman "aura" thing (that, Post-COIE, protects most, but not all, of his costume) is that it avoids questions around inventing new fabrics. Nonreproduceable Kryptonian fabrics also avoids that one too.

This is a question that basically every hero brings up if you think about it too much. ...Clark inventing a fabric that won't leave him naked after a fight is such a minor issue in this regard it's not even on the list.

I generally agree. It's fiction, it's not real, so simply avoid or hand-wave such questions usually is the best answer I reckon.

[marhawkman]

I mean you have a fair point I admit. But I don't see anything too criminally wrong with not necessarily associating (or wanting to associate) "inventor" overly much with Superman (a career journalist). It's like, does DC need more inventor heavy type scientist superheroes? Superman I think maybe might possibly just not quite go that far for the costume or maybe he just shouldn't have to (because it's fiction and he wouldn't have to go that far if some writer/editor decides so).

I agree that your point probably aligns with I think Morrison's Renaissance man conception of a (Silver-ish) Superman (which I love) and some classic takes on Superman like at least that first version of Golden Age Superman. And perhaps Superman inventing the fabric fits really well with his father having been a scientist.

You definitely make a strong point on the matter and maybe I like the idea more than I realized when I typed that kneejerk reaction.

In LoSH Brainiac 5 uses all kinds of super-tech... but... Coluans only have super-smarts as "powers"... not physical powers.

[Mutant God]

I like the family crest and the meaning of hope, I have no problem with it.

[marhawkman]

I like the family crest and the meaning of hope, I have no problem with it.

Well, real-world crests usually have SOME meaning to them, so yeah...

[JAK]

If Superman invented an indestructible fabric, would he share it with Batman? Though I can just imagine tons of fans getting in a tizzy and being like, "Superman couldn't invent something before Batman!!!!!"

That just makes me like the idea even more... hehe

Thanks. And yeah, this mostly works with a smarter, Morrison-esque Clark, less so one who is just an average idiot who happens to have powers. But to my mind, if you're writing Clark as a "normal guy with powers" then you're doing it wrong anyway.


But we already have that question in front of us with the Fortress.

Forget a durable fabric, Clark has the answer to almost every big problem humanity faces sitting around the arctic, collecting dust. Why hasn't he shared that tech and knowledge with us? The stuff he's collected, from Krypton to New Genesis to Rann and Thanagar, could solve the energy crisis, world hunger, cure tons of diseases.....

This is a question that basically every hero brings up if you think about it too much. They all have knowledge, skills, and/or resources that could change the world in huge, fundamental ways....but don't. Clark inventing a fabric that won't leave him naked after a fight is such a minor issue in this regard it's not even on the list.

Now that I think about it.....a durable fabric isn't even a good business model. Presumably your production costs would be high, and your customers will only have to buy from you once because they'll never wear out or ruin their clothes. You'd just end up with a warehouse full of jeans that're hard and expensive to make, that no one wants to buy because they already own one pair, and that's all they need.

True. I would say the fabric would, perhaps, only work in that way due to this:

One benefit of the whole Superman "aura" thing (that, Post-COIE, protects most, but not all, of his costume) is that it avoids questions around inventing new fabrics. Nonreproduceable Kryptonian fabrics also avoids that one too.

Maybe it's "more" durable, and is rendered basically indestructible because of his aura. That'd give us a smart Clark *and* good science for when he's lifting crumbling walls and such.

[manwhohaseverything]

Superman's fortress isn't just a "tech" inventory..There is more to that.He keeps genetic samples of ancient extinct animals.it provides safe haven for endangered species. To protect lost knowledge from ancient civilizations from across the universe.Clark is like brainiac in a sense that way.In terms of sharing with the world..i tend to think clark would keeping in mind the cynism the character already has towards techno-futurastic-utopian vision..The guy has been punching machines from the get go and knows technological advancements isn't be all and enda all answer for society..

I tend to see Superman more as a biologist or archeologist,not an engineer or scientific inventor.Hence the hair idea.Clark would be more about studying life forms and cryptids.So any solution clark makes would be far more organic and life form based.

[JAK]

Superman's fortress isn't just a "tech" inventory..There is more to that.He keeps genetic samples of ancient extinct animals.it provides safe haven for endangered species. To protect lost knowledge from ancient civilizations from across the universe.Clark is like brainiac in a sense that way.In terms of sharing with the world..i tend to think clark would keeping in mind the cynism the character already has towards techno-futurastic-utopian vision..The guy has been punching machines from the get go and knows technological advancements isn't be all and enda all answer for society..

I tend to see Superman more as a biologist or archeologist,not an engineer or scientific inventor.Hence the hair idea.Clark would be more about studying life forms and cryptids.So any solution clark makes would be far more organic and life form based.

I'd agree with that. If he's tech-y, it's just because of the base intelligence of Kryptonians (under the yellow sun, anyway). I do like the idea of him being so "life-focused" that, when he brings out inventive things he's worked on, it's not presented as any kind of big deal, it's just there and not necessarily his focus. That'd be a cool way to do that!