View Poll Results: Cah Wells turn things around?

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  • It's too late. Time for everyone to move on.

    65 71.43%
  • There's nothing wrong with this run.

    12 13.19%
  • They can still turn things around.

    14 15.38%
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  1. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Rat View Post
    I don't know whether or not to post this here or in the controversial opinions thread....

    ...But I don't think MJ socialising with anyone else other than Peter kind of works out for her in the long haul, and I don't think it's anything MJ really, deep down, cares about doing. There are scenes where she's told Peter she's perfectly happy with their world being just the two of them.

    Maybe that's entirely the fault of Marvel writers failing to flesh out her connective tissue over several decades while they debated and developed her as a love interest clinging to Peter's side all this time, but from all of the writing I've experienced, it's as much a problem for her and readership as it is for Peter with a new love interest. Engagement with readers in regards to that is pretty much nil. Carlie works as more a stooge than a bestie for her, used to great effect in Spencer's run, but you can take or leave her.

    I'm not saying MJ isn't social, that she doesn't have friends, or shouldn't have friends, it's just not a lot of those friends share her ambitions, and wouldn't follow her everywhere. Peter would, that one true best friend who encourages her to pursue and catch her dreams. When you have a friend like that who fulfils your need and gives you that confidence, and he just so happens to be the man of your dreams, do you honestly need anyone else?

    If you want MJ to be a strong willed fiesty wife with agency and ambition...but also have a fantastic and consistent social network that can follow her through the fire besides her husband, well....you might want to google 'Lois Lane' and 'Insomniac MJ'...

    ...But chiefly 'Lois Lane'
    I'm going to push back on this.

    First of all, YES, people need more than one friend. It's not wise or smart or healthy to wrap your entire world up in another person. Peter and MJ are best friends and know each other the best out of anyone else in their worlds, but YES they both need additional friends (gonna point out Peter's friend status is also pitifully weak these days. When the person you seem to talk to the most is the murderer of your first love, your life is truly in dire straits).

    Second, MJ does have friends. But the book is not called The Amazing Mary Jane (really wish we had got gotten the additional issues we were promised). Therefore, we're going to see her go off to work and only reference her friends/co-workers, and we might even see a quick scene such as when MJ talked to her friends about opening up a modeling agency but they convinced her she should audition for Secret Hospital instead, or MJ bringing home a friend only for Peter to be there anticipating a romantic night much to his embarassment, or MJ hanging out with Jill Stacy or Carlie Cooper. But that doesn't mean she doesn't have an active social life off panel and doesn't have a full contact list in her phone of people to go dancing with when she feels like it.

    Lois Lane shares a social/work world with Clark, which is why we see Lois at work. It's why we also know Betty Brant's co-workers, because they are Peter's. Make Peter an actor, and he and MJ would also share the same circle. (Why hasn't there been a Simon Williams/MJ team-up?!)

    I wish we had seen more of Spencer's LookUps, which was a really cool concept, and of course MJ had her own, separate career in the pre-OMD issues. And I'd argue MJ and Aunt May also have their own, separate from Peter relationship.

    MJ and Peter, when portrayed correctly, have a relationship of equals where they are each other's biggest supports as well as closest confidantes, but they do have other important people in their lives.
    Last edited by TinkerSpider; 01-26-2023 at 11:57 AM.

  2. #482
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinkerSpider View Post
    I'm going to push back on this.

    First of all, YES, people need more than one friend. It's not wise or smart or healthy to wrap your entire world up in another person. Peter and MJ are best friends and know each other the best out of anyone else in their worlds, but YES they both need additional friends (gonna point out Peter's friend status is also pitifully weak these days. When the person you seem to talk to the most is the murderer of your first love, your life is truly in dire straits).

    Second, MJ does have friends. But the book is not called The Amazing Mary Jane (really wish we had got gotten the additional issues we were promised). Therefore, we're going to see her go off to work and only reference her friends/co-workers, and we might even see a quick scene such as when MJ talked to her friends about opening up a modeling agency but they convinced her she should audition for Secret Hospital instead, or MJ bringing home a friend only for Peter to be there anticipating a romantic night much to his embarassment, or MJ hanging out with Jill Stacy or Carlie Cooper. But that doesn't mean she doesn't have an active social life off panel and doesn't have a full contact list in her phone of people to go dancing with when she feels like it.

    Lois Lane shares a social/work world with Clark, which is why we see Lois at work. It's why we also know Betty Brant's co-workers, because they are Peter's. Make Peter an actor, and he and MJ would also share the same circle. (Why hasn't there been a Simon Williams/MJ team-up?!)

    I wish we had seen more of Spencer's LookUps, which was a really cool concept, and of course MJ had her own, separate career in the pre-OMD issues. And I'd argue MJ and Aunt May also have their own, separate from Peter relationship.

    MJ and Peter, when portrayed correctly, have a relationship of equals where they are each other's biggest supports as well as closest confidantes, but they do have other important people in their lives.
    I actually think MJ should befriend Janet van Dyne. It makes sense to me given both characters, and I think it would be humorous for MJ to be connected to a Spider-themed superhero and a Wasp-themed superhero.

  3. #483
    Extraordinary Member Jman27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    I actually think MJ should befriend Janet van Dyne. It makes sense to me given both characters, and I think it would be humorous for MJ to be connected to a Spider-themed superhero and a Wasp-themed superhero.
    she hates Spider-Man so no
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

    "I need a reason to take the mask off."-Peter Parker

    "My heart half-breaks at how easy it is to lie to him. It breaks all the way when he believes me without question." Felicia Hardy

  4. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinkerSpider View Post
    I wish we had seen more of Spencer's LookUps, which was a really cool concept
    I agree with that one. We didn't even get a perspective of that from Carlie either.

  5. #485
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    she hates Spider-Man so no
    That's what makes it funny.

  6. #486
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    she hates Spider-Man so no
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    That's what makes it funny.
    Agreed! It's boring if everything is just.... "fine".... somehow....

  7. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinkerSpider View Post
    I'm going to push back on this.

    First of all, YES, people need more than one friend. It's not wise or smart or healthy to wrap your entire world up in another person. Peter and MJ are best friends and know each other the best out of anyone else in their worlds, but YES they both need additional friends (gonna point out Peter's friend status is also pitifully weak these days. When the person you seem to talk to the most is the murderer of your first love, your life is truly in dire straits).

    Second, MJ does have friends. But the book is not called The Amazing Mary Jane (really wish we had got gotten the additional issues we were promised). Therefore, we're going to see her go off to work and only reference her friends/co-workers, and we might even see a quick scene such as when MJ talked to her friends about opening up a modeling agency but they convinced her she should audition for Secret Hospital instead, or MJ bringing home a friend only for Peter to be there anticipating a romantic night much to his embarassment, or MJ hanging out with Jill Stacy or Carlie Cooper. But that doesn't mean she doesn't have an active social life off panel and doesn't have a full contact list in her phone of people to go dancing with when she feels like it.

    Lois Lane shares a social/work world with Clark, which is why we see Lois at work. It's why we also know Betty Brant's co-workers, because they are Peter's. Make Peter an actor, and he and MJ would also share the same circle. (Why hasn't there been a Simon Williams/MJ team-up?!)

    I wish we had seen more of Spencer's LookUps, which was a really cool concept, and of course MJ had her own, separate career in the pre-OMD issues. And I'd argue MJ and Aunt May also have their own, separate from Peter relationship.

    MJ and Peter, when portrayed correctly, have a relationship of equals where they are each other's biggest supports as well as closest confidantes, but they do have other important people in their lives.
    Yep. Agreed on all points. MJ has had and should have her own social network. But the book is ultimately about Peter. So they aren't going to consistently showcase characters from the acting/modeling world of Mary Jane because that's not a world he frequents.

    And that's not necessarily a bad thing. Even during the marriage, Mary Jane shouldn't be knee deep in every single Spider-man story.

    They probably could stand to give her a more consistent gal pal that isn't a Peter Parker ex, but let's face it, that's not going to happen within the current status quo (which seems more focused on keeping her and Peter apart than actually developing and bettering her character) And then there's also the problem that the majority of new characters just don't seem to stick from one run to the next.

  8. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    I actually think MJ should befriend Janet van Dyne. It makes sense to me given both characters, and I think it would be humorous for MJ to be connected to a Spider-themed superhero and a Wasp-themed superhero.
    How about we create some new normal people for her to be friends with? Co-workers or people who work at the soup kitchen.

  9. #489
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Rat View Post
    I don't know whether or not to post this here or in the controversial opinions thread....

    ...But I don't think MJ socialising with anyone else other than Peter kind of works out for her in the long haul, and I don't think it's anything MJ really, deep down, cares about doing. There are scenes where she's told Peter she's perfectly happy with their world being just the two of them.

    Maybe that's entirely the fault of Marvel writers failing to flesh out her connective tissue over several decades while they debated and developed her as a love interest clinging to Peter's side all this time, but from all of the writing I've experienced, it's as much a problem for her and readership as it is for Peter with a new love interest. Engagement with readers in regards to that is pretty much nil. Carlie works as more a stooge than a bestie for her, used to great effect in Spencer's run, but you can take or leave her.

    I'm not saying MJ isn't social, that she doesn't have friends, or shouldn't have friends, it's just not a lot of those friends share her ambitions, and wouldn't follow her everywhere. Peter would, that one true best friend who encourages her to pursue and catch her dreams. When you have a friend like that who fulfils your need and gives you that confidence, and he just so happens to be the man of your dreams, do you honestly need anyone else?

    If you want MJ to be a strong willed fiesty wife with agency and ambition...but also have a fantastic and consistent social network that can follow her through the fire besides her husband, well....you might want to google 'Lois Lane' and 'Insomniac MJ'...

    ...But chiefly 'Lois Lane'
    I don't see what's the problem with MJ having friends outside of Peter, like yeah, friends won't follow her that far, while Spidey will, but friends usually don't do so, people have their lives and there are only so many sacrifices they'll be willing to make for someone else, and even though Peter is willing to follow her, there are limits to how far he'll go, and the reverse is true too.

    And honestly, as much as MJ has a decent family drama, Marvel has completely failed at including aunt Anna into all of this, and that will always be a waste.

    So yeah, Marvel has failed at developing her friendship with other people, I don't see why that means it can't have more attempts at it, because interacting with other characters (And hopefully one who isn't a metaphorical Spidey clone) is a way to show off her character.

    Plus, we shouldn't really think "Marvel has failed at doing x, they shouldn't try again", if something that could happen naturally is executed poorly, that is the writing's problem, that doesn't mean the idea itself is bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    I actually think MJ should befriend Janet van Dyne. It makes sense to me given both characters, and I think it would be humorous for MJ to be connected to a Spider-themed superhero and a Wasp-themed superhero.
    Is Marvel ever gonna remember that MJ was friends with Carol once upon a time?

    I'm sure it was just an excuse for Conway to keep writing his favorite redhead waifu, but it still happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    she hates Spider-Man so no
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    That's what makes it funny.
    She hasn't had negative emotions for Spidey since uh, at most the 70's, the whole "Spiders and wasps are natural enemies" is only excused by Nadia now, and Nadia is using that as an excuse to be a bitch to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Agreed! It's boring if everything is just.... "fine".... somehow....
    Well, a limit is also needed, 'cause if Janet was a bitch to Spidey like she used to be, or how Nadia is, I don't see how MJ would put up with someone who talks **** about Spidey so much and call them a friend, that'd be like Spidey becoming friends with a model who hates MJ for no damn reason.

    And yes, I'm aware ASM has had similar ironic situations where Peter dated someone who was okay with him and hated Spider-Man, and that was generally garbage too, since it creates an annoying drama with his secret identity and very unhealthy and unfun relationships.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  10. #490
    Mighty Member Daibhidh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Is Marvel ever gonna remember that MJ was friends with Carol once upon a time?

    I'm sure it was just an excuse for Conway to keep writing his favorite redhead waifu, but it still happened.
    It was the first time Carol had a conversation that passed the Bechdel Test.
    I would like to see Carol and Janet in MJ's circle of friends as well. And Jessica Jones. (Or MJ in Carol and Janet's circle of friends.) I wonder if there is any humour to be got out of conversations where half of Carol's friends know who Peter is and the other half just know of MJ as Tony's former personal assistant.

    And yes, I'm aware ASM has had similar ironic situations where Peter dated someone who was okay with him and hated Spider-Man, and that was generally garbage too, since it creates an annoying drama with his secret identity and very unhealthy and unfun relationships.
    But... but... Gwen Stacy was Peter's perfect and flawless One True Love who was too good for this world.

    (Sarcasm does not always travel over the internet.)
    Petrus Maria Johannaque sunt nubendi

  11. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daibhidh View Post
    It was the first time Carol had a conversation that passed the Bechdel Test.
    I would like to see Carol and Janet in MJ's circle of friends as well. And Jessica Jones. (Or MJ in Carol and Janet's circle of friends.) I wonder if there is any humour to be got out of conversations where half of Carol's friends know who Peter is and the other half just know of MJ as Tony's former personal assistant.
    I think the humor that could come from this is the half that knows MJ as Stark's former assistant has no idea she's a model/actress, which can then become a joke about how those characters aren't paying attention to media around lol.

    But... but... Gwen Stacy was Peter's perfect and flawless One True Love who was too good for this world.

    (Sarcasm does not always travel over the internet.)
    If only Gwen was talked about with more sarcasm lol.

    Honestly, while I blame Betty for starting these annoying clichés about Spidey's romantic relationships, Gwen picked those same traits and amplified them, to a point she has less of a life than Betty, and considering that Betty spends a lot of her screen time thinking about Peter, that did her no favors too...
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  12. #492
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daibhidh View Post
    It was the first time Carol had a conversation that passed the Bechdel Test.
    I would like to see Carol and Janet in MJ's circle of friends as well. And Jessica Jones. (Or MJ in Carol and Janet's circle of friends.) I wonder if there is any humour to be got out of conversations where half of Carol's friends know who Peter is and the other half just know of MJ as Tony's former personal assistant.

    But... but... Gwen Stacy was Peter's perfect and flawless One True Love who was too good for this world.

    (Sarcasm does not always travel over the internet.)
    Her appearance in the Jessica Jones digital-original comic by Kelly Thompson was pretty good, insofar as Thompson's understanding of and respect for her as a character and her role in Peter's life, at least to me. And since Thompson has also been writing Carol (and relatively well, at that) for the last few years . . . would be interesting to see her and MJ meet up again.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  13. #493
    Mighty Member Alex_Of_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    That's what makes it funny.
    I have to agree--that would be a rooting tooting good time.

    Side-note: I've always thought Spidey and the Scarlet Witch would get along, what with them both being working class, shunned by the heroic community sorta folks

  14. #494
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Her appearance in the Jessica Jones digital-original comic by Kelly Thompson was pretty good, insofar as Thompson's understanding of and respect for her as a character and her role in Peter's life, at least to me. And since Thompson has also been writing Carol (and relatively well, at that) for the last few years . . . would be interesting to see her and MJ meet up again.
    Thompson definitely did give MJ a good voice on her few speaking roles, she did the same during Beyond too.



    (ASM#78 vol 5).

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex_Of_X View Post
    I have to agree--that would be a rooting tooting good time.

    Side-note: I've always thought Spidey and the Scarlet Witch would get along, what with them both being working class, shunned by the heroic community sorta folks
    She can relate to the "shunned by the heroic community" after House of M, though for very different reasons.

    Kinda funny and sad that after Wanda stopped being involved with the Avengers, Spidey himself became more involved, and it's definitely not a coincidence, considering Disassembled is about getting rid of the old ones to have more A-listers and Bendis' pets.

    But, Spidey would need to first, stop thinking of Wanda as "that girl who married a robot":



    (Avengers#503).



    (The Darkhold Alpha).

    'Cause it's actually surprising that him being a dick to Vision while also talking like there's something wrong with Wanda for dating Vision is an incredible ******* move...
    Last edited by Lukmendes; 01-26-2023 at 06:48 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  15. #495
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I hate it when they write Peter talking like an idiot...

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