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  1. #46
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    ...Okies. Coolz...?
    I wasn't trying to dispute anything, just sharing an opinion based on the article I listened to.
    Last edited by Devaishwarya; 02-05-2023 at 01:10 PM.
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  2. #47
    Astonishing Member Majesty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    It's interesting because you now have writers who will look back on that early X-Men run and go: "Well...that's what Claremont intended..." Which would be a slightly not 100% correct read because that would just be how the now-writer interpreted that particular situation and how it might fit in his/her story.
    Claremont revealed what he had in store for Kitty and Rachel years before either of them got outed, so we can safely deduce that that's what he intended.

    I always thought that those displays of "jealousy" by Rachel in front of Kitty in the early Excalibur days or in Reload, after she finds out that Colossus was resurrected, were a result of her loneliness and grief, and while that may be true in part, Claremont was evidently going for more.
    Yeah, it's amazing how some conveniently ignore the part where Claremont says "With Kitty, the basic idea was that, while she dated a lot of people when she was an adolescent, the primal love of her life has always been Rachel." That's definitely not up for interpretation You don't do that if you don't intend for those characters to be into women. But it seems that some really do try to jump through metaphorical hoops to try to backhandedly diminish that in some way, shape or form.

    Maybe or maybe not, but there's always an "um, actually" that comes and it gets tiring after decades of it that continue after things get confirmed.

    First people read between the lines because they had to, and people ignored just how many times characters were meant to get taken in a certain direction that got left on the cutting room floor. They say its as simple as "they'd just do it". When that wasn't an option and they had to adapt ways to do things. They can come out years later and say what their intent was with characters and still get it dimished.

    Then the argument was "If a character is gay/bi/pan etc where's the confirmation??" and they always diminished the opinions of people that were able to read between the lines and say we were just 'making stuff up'. THEN it gets confirmed later on and they say "Well we never saw any evidence." or "They are doing this for just social points." so there's always an "um, actually." to diminish it. When none of this happens when a kiss or anything else happens in a het situation. It's just accepted. Whenever it isn't, there are 20 hoops we have to jump through to prove the intent and still get treated like it isn't really that. It just gets tiresome after a while.
    Last edited by Majesty; 02-05-2023 at 01:19 PM.

  3. #48
    Incredible Member Selene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    ...Okies. Coolz...?
    I wasn't trying to dispute anything, just sharing an opinion based on the article I listened to.
    I got that, I was only adding to your post there. I don't think Rachel/Kitty is the result of another writer interpreting some specific subtext, because the original writer revealed what he had planned a long time before what eventually became canon. For that reason, the Rachel/Kitty case is, IMO, much closer to Mystique/Destiny, than, say, Iceman.

    Sorry it wasn't clear enough!
    Last edited by Selene; 02-05-2023 at 01:25 PM.

  4. #49
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Ah! Gotchya. No scene. And I agree.

    I could easily see Rachel and Kate being an intended couple (as per Raven and Irene) or Rachel being gay based, on they both being the two survivors in the future of DoFP and from Rachels earliest appearances in UXM and NM.

    He may have not have intended some characters to be queer one way or another (Storm and Yukio, eg) but...he certainly wrote them in situations that could be taken in that context. Situations that a writer could now claim as "intended" despite Storm clearly being more sexually interested in men canonically.

    It is really indicative of the problems we face now with having one writer hone and develop those characters for so long...a luxury that modern day writers don't have and don't want...and who have to take what's established decades ago and make it make some sense in the present.
    My Summer rain. My rooftop in Japan. My quiet in the storm. *cries* Al Ewing is GOD...Praise His name! Uplift Him in song! Glorify His works!

  5. #50
    Astonishing Member Majesty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    I got that, I was only adding to your post there. I don't think Rachel/Kitty is the result of another writer interpreting some specific subtext, because the original writer revealed a long time before what he had planned. For that reason, the Rachel/Kitty case is, IMO, much closer to Mystique/Destiny, than, say, Iceman.

    Sorry it wasn't clear enough!
    Yeah, at least as far as Claremont went, Rachel/Kitty was the intention to be endgame for each other. Currently Kitty is dating no one and Rachel is with Psylocke. But I'd like to see Kitty and Rachel have some conversations as they haven't seen each other since Kitty's resurrections.

  6. #51
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micabe View Post
    is Rachel a a time guardian? I'd like an example... To date exactly what has Rachel ever done to protect time?
    Feel free to peruse Cable issues 23-25, and a variety of other issues where it's stated that Clan Askani and Mother Askani are responsible for maintaining the time stream. And the most recent issues of Knights of X.

  7. #52
    Astonishing Member Majesty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    Feel free to peruse Cable issues 23-25, and a variety of other issues where it's stated that Clan Askani and Mother Askani are responsible for maintaining the time stream. And the most recent issues of Knights of X.
    It's one of the reasons she has a tendency at times to appear and then disappear to certain people. Always on the move ala Cable.

  8. #53
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majesty View Post
    Yeah, at least as far as Claremont went, Rachel/Kitty was the intention to be endgame for each other. Currently Kitty is dating no one and Rachel is with Psylocke. But I'd like to see Kitty and Rachel have some conversations as they haven't seen each other since Kitty's resurrections.
    Yup, Claremont made it clear in X-Men: The End that they were "endgame". Also did I imagine that in some book somewhere they had a child together?

    Quote Originally Posted by Majesty View Post
    It's one of the reasons she has a tendency at times to appear and then disappear to certain people. Always on the move ala Cable.
    Yeah, once she died as Mother Askani she became a non-corporeal psychic entity that could transcend time and space (which used to be a measure of omega-ness).

  9. #54
    Astonishing Member Thirteen's Avatar
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    Cosmic all-powerful bird of flame and Guardian of the Cross-Timestream etc have its place of honor in Rachel's catalog, however as I was looking for the MARVEL TEAM-UP cover below, featuring early uncostumed Rachel in a green trenchcoat, l was reminded of a missed angle on using Rachel. I liked the grounded mutant detective noir like use of Telepath Rachel for less cosmic stories as in the search for a missing girl that took a supernatural turn in EXCALIBUR #35. Rachel makes a stunning femme fatale among investigators ...


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  10. #55
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirteen View Post
    Cosmic all-powerful bird of flame and Guardian of the Cross-Timestream etc have its place of honor in Rachel's catalog, however as I was looking for the MARVEL TEAM-UP cover below, featuring early uncostumed Rachel in a green trenchcoat, l was reminded of a missed angle on using Rachel. I liked the grounded mutant detective noir like use of Telepath Rachel for less cosmic stories as in the search for a missing girl that took a supernatural turn in EXCALIBUR #35. Rachel makes a stunning femme fatale among investigators ...


    Aww I totally forgot about her relationship with that DI throughout Excalibur. She was baller in these scenes, and yeah it makes sense even moreso why she thrived in X-Factor.

  11. #56
    Astonishing Member Thirteen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    Aww I totally forgot about her relationship with that DI throughout Excalibur. She was baller in these scenes, and yeah it makes sense even moreso why she thrived in X-Factor.
    THANKS for reminding me of this detective noir gem. I can only imagine if Rachel had been around during the MADROXXX-FACTOR Detective agency days!
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  12. #57
    The Spirits of Vengeance K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    Aww I totally forgot about her relationship with that DI throughout Excalibur. She was baller in these scenes, and yeah it makes sense even moreso why she thrived in X-Factor.
    I know, right?! If there was ever a sequel, Rachel should have a team-up with Pryde & Wisdom


  13. #58
    Astonishing Member Thirteen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K7P5V View Post
    I know, right?! If there was ever a sequel, Rachel should have a team-up with Pryde & Wisdom

    I think Rachel and Pete Wisdom would be FIRE.
    I rewrite that any depiction of Rachel and John Sublime, with romantic connotations, is actually Rachel and Pete.
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  14. #59
    Astonishing Member Thirteen's Avatar
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    Bring over from the Betsy Braddock Appreciation Thread for it's heavy Rachel content....


    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    From this week's X-Men Monday teaser images. So cute.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daedra View Post
    I’ll be honest, I detest Rachel haircut there but I’m excited for this couple, I love these 2 so much I can’t wait for the new run any longer

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  15. #60
    Beware! Daedra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirteen View Post
    Bring over from the Betsy Braddock Appreciation Thread for it's heavy Rachel content....
    Lol glad you appreciate Thirteen, I’m kinda missing the classic mullet, the shaved look will take a bit getting used to but I’m stocked just the same, reading about Rachel again on a monthly basis it’s going to be sweet.
    Ommadon: By summoning all the dark powers I will infest the spirit of man So that he uses his science and logic to destroy himself. Greed and avarice shall prevail, and those who do not hear my words shall pay the price. I'll teach man to use his machines, I'll show him what distorted science can give birth to. I'll teach him to fly like a fairy, and I'll give him the ultimate answer to all his science can ask. And the world will be free for my magic again.

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