Warren Worthington: (Arch)Angel Appreciation 2023

[mattsarchamp]

I fear nobody even remembers the Twins - and Krakoa-era was the right time to resurrect them (pun intended). Another missed chance.
I would DIE if they finally gave Warren the children-from-future drama we're used to with Scott and Jean. The potential is limitless, especially if you throw in "grandpa" Poccy.

Now Warren is as disconnected from Betsy as he could ever be, but... think the potential if the pair was still on.
There the whole "I sired two children while I was still in a relationship with you", which basically is cheating.
And then the addional "they are half-Asian, in a time when you too were Asian" that would be another whole source of drama, because an outside person unaware of the drama could believe the Twins future children of Betsy and Warren, and therefore related to Kwannon as well (so she would be thrown in the mix) while actually they aren't future children (they're technically, "past" children like Cable) and are living proof of Archangel cheating on Psylocke in the very hours he was still advocating for "stay with be, Elizabeth, and be my wife as Death".
Truly hilarious. The drama potential indeed!

Better I log off now. I think my fanfiction-like crazyness is showing.

Wow! That's amazing ideas you have there, dude. Imagine the potential for his flawed characterization. It's just stupid of Marvel not going for that route fearing that it might be another "Daddy issues" that Scott already has with his children.

[Hakka84]

Wow! That's amazing ideas you have there, dude. Imagine the potential for his flawed characterization. It's just stupid of Marvel not going for that route fearing that it might be another "Daddy issues" that Scott already has with his children.

If I didn't have already too many things to write (and no hope for even a 1/30 of them to see the light), I would totally try to write a series of brief scenes of this "AU".
I really should try to develop a bit the idea, though, and collect it in a decent format for a post on Tumblr. Hm.
Thanks though!

Amazing new Warren figure coming soon
Attachment 136249

Not much fun of the joints-figures (I grew with Spawn/McFarlane's), but not bad in itself. *goes to hug her Sideshow Angel Comiquette)
Thanks for sharing! It's refreshing to see that, at least on the marketing side, Warren is still considered.

[Thievery]

At this point I wouldn't even be against it: after all, the best arch he got in decades was him going villain, and there seem to not exist a place for him in the "good" teams. But, seeing how they've written Genesis and Beast... just no.
I mean, if they were able to really write a good morally grey character, a Warren that has a good face and then he's an Apocalypse behind the shadows... but they would never be able to, so I'll pass.

I think that perhaps we're reading too much in the whole "souls beyond salvation". That page is an ending montage, as you would get in a tv show or movie. They had to show us the main characters but it doesn't mean that we have to apply each definition to each specific character. I don't have a specific example of a montage similar to this, but usually the words are some "wisdom line" to give finality to the main character journey, while the pictures gives us an hint of how the other subplots ended. Not always the two things (the audio and the video) are 100% connected.
Hope you get what I mean.
Said this. Given how we know X-Office thinks of the Warren character... I'm not relaxed at all. I try to cling to logic (both on the montage aforementioned, and the absurdity of let Archangel waste in death to pull a "simple" Angel from the past), but logic doesn't apply here. So I'm scared.

Man, this is so depressing.

No, I wouldn't want Archangel to become a villain under any circumstances. We would end up seeing way less of him. He would make even fewer appearances than he did during Krakoa.
I was probably being a little paranoid about Warren staying a villain after reading the comic because I disliked Dark X-Men #5 so much. And not just the Angel parts of the story. The comic left me frustrated about what happened to a lot of the characters and the lack of better closure than many of them got for the final issue of a miniseries.
EDIT: I should have said explanation as to what had happened to some of the characters instead of use the word closure. Or well something else besides the word closure.

I understand what your trying to get at with the ending montage point. I just don't know that I buy it here. All the other characters' panels and narration fit their ending pretty well.

I fear nobody even remembers the Twins - and Krakoa-era was the right time to resurrect them (pun intended). Another missed chance.
I would DIE if they finally gave Warren the children-from-future drama we're used to with Scott and Jean. The potential is limitless, especially if you throw in "grandpa" Poccy.

Now Warren is as disconnected from Betsy as he could ever be, but... think the potential if the pair was still on.
There the whole "I sired two children while I was still in a relationship with you", which basically is cheating.
And then the addional "they are half-Asian, in a time when you too were Asian" that would be another whole source of drama, because an outside person unaware of the drama could believe the Twins future children of Betsy and Warren, and therefore related to Kwannon as well (so she would be thrown in the mix) while actually they aren't future children (they're technically, "past" children like Cable) and are living proof of Archangel cheating on Psylocke in the very hours he was still advocating for "stay with be, Elizabeth, and be my wife as Death".
Truly hilarious. The drama potential indeed!

Better I log off now. I think my fanfiction-like crazyness is showing.

I don't know that Archangel/Apocalypse sleeping around with other woman while trying to win Betsy over during Dark Angel Saga would be cheating on Warren's part. The character was meant to be acting under some form of mind control.

But that is a heck of an imagination you have for coming up with fan fiction stories. Your really good at this stuff.

[Hakka84]

I understand what your trying to get at with the ending montage point. I just don't know that I buy it here. All the other characters' panels and narration fit their ending pretty well.

Believe me, I'm forcing myself to believe this explanation. I'm clinging to it out of desperation. As I said, it's a logical argument I'm making (insert Spock's voice), but logic never applies to X-Men comics.

I don't know that Archangel/Apocalypse sleeping around with other woman while trying to win Betsy over during Dark Angel Saga would be cheating on Warren's part. The character was meant to be acting under some form of mind control.

Yes, I know. Logically it's not cheating (it wasn't "Warren" on the driving seat), but the heart could have a different view on it. If you get what I mean. The drama would be Betsy trying to cling to the logic of "it wasn't Warren who was cheating" but her heart being broken because she can't manage to totally convince it that "it wasn't Warren". If you get what I mean.

But that is a heck of an imagination you have for coming up with fan fiction stories. Your really good at this stuff.

It's a curse, actually. Especially if you are into more than one fandom *points to hundreds of ideas and dropped fanfictions lingering on the PC* and if you're also into making manips with photoshop *points to GBs of files*.
Especially if you're a procrastinator and you're unable to finish anything - and English isn't your first language so there's that hurdle too.
But thanks nonetheless.

[Kaled]

There is a forgotten X-Men plot point and that is that Mephisto has Rogue's soul. If Angel/Archangel soul is irredeemable I think it would be and interesting plot point for him to send Rogue and Archangel against the X-Men. Perhaps the start of his version of the 4 Horseman. Angel becames Death again and Rogue is the new War. Famine and Plaque would have to come from the Marvel Universe and not be mutants.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Well though remember that Foxe doesn't have the final say on everything so the bit about Warren's soul could very easily be different with a different writer.

[Hakka84]

There is a forgotten X-Men plot point and that is that Mephisto has Rogue's soul. If Angel/Archangel soul is irredeemable I think it would be and interesting plot point for him to send Rogue and Archangel against the X-Men. Perhaps the start of his version of the 4 Horseman. Angel becames Death again and Rogue is the new War. Famine and Plaque would have to come from the Marvel Universe and not be mutants.

This is something new for me. Can you elucidate on the Rogue's soul thing? Where/when it happened? (not necessarily the specific issue, just the timing). Is it perhaps the Mephisto Vs. mini?

This reminded me of the Amalgam/Death character that looked like Rogue (but who knows if it was related or what) that appeared during Mutant Massacre to Warren while he was pinned on the wall. It was a an Annual, let me see if I can't get the number.
Edit: Uncanny X-Men Annual #16 (1992). That was an odd Warren story.

[Micabe]

There is a forgotten X-Men plot point and that is that Mephisto has Rogue's soul. If Angel/Archangel soul is irredeemable I think it would be and interesting plot point for him to send Rogue and Archangel against the X-Men. Perhaps the start of his version of the 4 Horseman. Angel becames Death again and Rogue is the new War. Famine and Plaque would have to come from the Marvel Universe and not be mutants.

This is something new for me. Can you elucidate on the Rogue's soul thing? Where/when it happened? (not necessarily the specific issue, just the timing). Is it perhaps the Mephisto Vs. mini?

This reminded me of the Amalgam/Death character that looked like Rogue (but who knows if it was related or what) that appeared during Mutant Massacre to Warren while he was pinned on the wall. It was a an Annual, let me see if I can't get the number.
Edit: Uncanny X-Men Annual #16 (1992). That was an odd Warren story.

Found this here on CBR...

Does Mephisto Own Rogue's Soul?

[K7P5V]

This is something new for me. Can you elucidate on the Rogue's soul thing? Where/when it happened? (not necessarily the specific issue, just the timing). Is it perhaps the Mephisto Vs. mini?

This reminded me of the Amalgam/Death character that looked like Rogue (but who knows if it was related or what) that appeared during Mutant Massacre to Warren while he was pinned on the wall. It was a an Annual, let me see if I can't get the number.
Edit: Uncanny X-Men Annual #16 (1992). That was an odd Warren story.

I know, right?! What's even more odd is that this Amalgam hasn't made any other appearances outside of this one annual...

[Micabe]

I know, right?! What's even more odd is that this Amalgam hasn't made any other appearances outside of this one annual...

Warp World


X-Men Forever #22

Do these instances count?

[Hakka84]

Found this here on CBR...
Does Mephisto Own Rogue's Soul?

Ok, yes, the issue I thought. I've recently re-read issue #2 (the Vs X-Factor) because it's the prequel to Marvel Fanfare #40 we were speaking a couple of pages ago, but didn't reread the rest so I should give it a look. Thanks!

Do these instances count?

Hm... not sure we can infer it's the same character.

[Micabe]

Did you even read the page I included in my previous post? How can it not be the same character when the story opens up by saying, "Rouge is a Mutant"?

[Thievery]

I know, right?! What's even more odd is that this Amalgam hasn't made any other appearances outside of this one annual...

I don't know if this Amalgam is meant to be a combination of Rouge/Mystique or whoever else, but I would like to see the character appear again. I liked her and the story.

[K7P5V]

I don't know if this Amalgam is meant to be a combination of Rouge/Mystique or whoever else, but I would like to see the character appear again. I liked her and the story.

I know, right?! I love how the ending was so cryptic (XD)

[Hakka84]

Did you even read the page I included in my previous post? How can it not be the same character when the story opens up by saying, "Rouge is a Mutant"?

That Amalgam is meant to be a mix of Rogue and Mystique is a given, but nothing points to the same Rogue from the two pages you shared. Starting from the fact the girl in the Annual doesn't have Nightcrawler's appendages.
I say that Amalgam is a Rogue, but the cryptic description that is offered could imply it was some kind of superior character that eventually absorbed or merged with Rogue. Though I'm more convinced by the hypothesis that she is a Rogue who kept absorbing until she ascended to a "Angel of Death" status that can hop from timeline to timeline and... do her deed (which is cryptic as well).
All in all, a confusing and yet interesting character. What is her true purpose? Is what she says the truth or she tells a comfortable lie to each dying mutant in order to convince them to let themselves be absorbed? And what does she do with all those powers?

Edit: I agree that the two Rogue you posted must've been at least inspired by this Amalgam (if the authors remembered the Annual, of course).

Edit2: I'm... perplexed by the Warp World you included (took a look at all the characters listed but found no Rogue-inspired?). But I admit the premise was interesting. odd that it didn't turn into a fanfiction trope somehow.