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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member Thievery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Grayson View Post
    I also think the Apocalypse angst has run its course for Warren - but arguably, there was no better place to confront it and make it fresh and interesting than with Apocalypse being brought into the fold in the Krakoan era. As far as I'm aware, though, I don't think their history was ever addressed while Apocalypse was still around. Warren confronting Professor X and Jean over their ability to sit next to the monster who brainwashed him on the Quiet Council would have been an interesting story, but issues like that seem to have been waylaid in this era to fit the 'all mutants are good now' narrative.
    Archangel and Apocalypse's history was only addressed one time that I can recall. It happened in the first X of Swords issue. Warren travels with Apocalypse and the team of X-Men that travel through the External Gate and encounter the first Horseman. Warren tells Apocalypse that he's going because he doesn't trust him. Apocalypse tells Warren that he is happy to see him in his Archangel form and not his Angel form. I think that the rest was pretty generic stuff that was said between them. So it seems like Apocalypse being on Krakoa bothered Warren but not to the extant that he would upset the applecart and confront the Quit Council over it. Kind of strange. but it does show that Warren doesn't really obsess over Apocalypse all that much anymore wich is a good thing.

    And it's like you said. None of the X-Men seem to care that there are horrible villains living among them on the island outside of a few that have personal grudges.
    Last edited by Thievery; 02-06-2023 at 06:25 AM.

  2. #32
    Spectacular Member Hekabolos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    Going by the mini retcon in the Dark Angel Saga, where AoA Jean visits Betsy's memories, the first time she met Warren was some time between his joining the Champions and the Dark Phoenix Saga, that is, before Betsy had joined S.T.R.I.K.E. or had hooked up with Tom Lennox.
    Huh. I read the Dark Angel Saga and completely forgot about this bit. I stand corrected!

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Grayson View Post
    I also think the Apocalypse angst has run its course for Warren - but arguably, there was no better place to confront it and make it fresh and interesting than with Apocalypse being brought into the fold in the Krakoan era. As far as I'm aware, though, I don't think their history was ever addressed while Apocalypse was still around. Warren confronting Professor X and Jean over their ability to sit next to the monster who brainwashed him on the Quiet Council would have been an interesting story, but issues like that seem to have been waylaid in this era to fit the 'all mutants are good now' narrative.
    Yeah....

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member Thievery's Avatar
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    All right, what do fans want to see Archangel do this year. I've seen suggestions for Warren to run X-Corp in a new series, some interactions with Apocalypse, and the return of Cam Hodge. I've suggested putting Warren on a team like Hellions or X-force.

    I'm personally coming around to the idea of just leaving Archangel out of the X-Men comics for the rest of the Krakoan era. The writers don't seem to have any ideas or interest in the character. Better to leave him on the sidelines if that's the case. Also, and I know that I am in the minority on this, but I think Krakoa is starting to run it's course and reach it's natural end.

    I think that it might be interesting to see Archangel pop up more in the regular Marvel Universe right now. Maybe he could become a recurring cast member of one of the Spider-Man comics. I think that I would like that more than anything that Angel has done since Krakoa has started.

  4. #34
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    I want him to join the main X-men team that Duggan is writing. Its been far too long since he's been on flagship team. Its been far too long since he has been and i want to say under Fraction during the SF days. I dont really count Bunn's run bc that wasnt the flagship book and he was the Archangel drone at the time. Oh and I guess Disassembled might count but there was no proper team and that was about bringing an end to the X-men

  5. #35
    Fantastic Member Til's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thievery View Post
    All right, what do fans want to see Archangel do this year.
    Personally, I'd like to see a story focusing on what I mentioned in a previous post, Warren's kids. Have Ichisumi come back and demand that Uriel and Eimin be resurrected. From there, you can have a story of Warren trying to connect to his kids, how Ichisumi fits into it all, and what happens if the twins are more attracted to Arakko's way of life than Krakoa's. Not to mention we know Apocalypse will eventually come back, so you can have Warren struggling with his kids' worship of Big A.

  6. #36
    The Spirits of Vengeance K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thievery View Post
    All right, what do fans want to see Archangel do this year. I've seen suggestions for Warren to run X-Corp in a new series, some interactions with Apocalypse, and the return of Cam Hodge. I've suggested putting Warren on a team like Hellions or X-force.

    I'm personally coming around to the idea of just leaving Archangel out of the X-Men comics for the rest of the Krakoan era. The writers don't seem to have any ideas or interest in the character. Better to leave him on the sidelines if that's the case. Also, and I know that I am in the minority on this, but I think Krakoa is starting to run it's course and reach it's natural end.

    I think that it might be interesting to see Archangel pop up more in the regular Marvel Universe right now. Maybe he could become a recurring cast member of one of the Spider-Man comics. I think that I would like that more than anything that Angel has done since Krakoa has started.
    Truly thought-provoking, I'd even settle for Warren reconnecting with The Champions

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member Thievery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    I want him to join the main X-men team that Duggan is writing. Its been far too long since he's been on flagship team. Its been far too long since he has been and i want to say under Fraction during the SF days. I dont really count Bunn's run bc that wasnt the flagship book and he was the Archangel drone at the time. Oh and I guess Disassembled might count but there was no proper team and that was about bringing an end to the X-men
    I have to admit that the Duggan run on X-Men isn't doing it for me. The stories are a little to hit or miss. The ones I like I really like. The ones that I don't like I really don't like. To many roster changes. Yes I know that makes me look like a hypocrite for trying to vote for Dazzler in the X-Men fan vote after complaining about roster changes.

    Any reason in particular that you want Warren on the main team other than that it has been so long since he has been on one? You maybe want him reunited with Cyclops, Jean, and Iceman. I'm not overly fond of putting Warren on the main team for that reason. I think that I would rather see something new. Plus I have to be honest, I just don't like Iceman. It also might be a better idea if you reunited all of The O5 togather at the same time. I think that I would have rather seen Archangel on the main team when Polaris was on it. If Firestar and Warren ended up on the team at the the same time that could be nice I guess.

    Still, what kind of stories would you want to see Warren take part in if he were to somehow end up on the main squad.
    And please don't take offense. I'm not trying to poop on what you would like to see.

    I think that the Archangel that appeared in the Cullen Bunn run of X-Men was meant to be the real one after The Apocalypse Wars crossover. I thouhgt that it was real Warren in charge of the army of sleeper mutants.

    Quote Originally Posted by Til View Post
    Personally, I'd like to see a story focusing on what I mentioned in a previous post, Warren's kids. Have Ichisumi come back and demand that Uriel and Eimin be resurrected. From there, you can have a story of Warren trying to connect to his kids, how Ichisumi fits into it all, and what happens if the twins are more attracted to Arakko's way of life than Krakoa's. Not to mention we know Apocalypse will eventually come back, so you can have Warren struggling with his kids' worship of Big A.
    Yeah, that could all make for a good story.

    Quote Originally Posted by K7P5V View Post
    Truly thought-provoking, I'd even settle for Warren reconnecting with The Champions
    I will admit that I did not see that one coming. It would be interesting to see.

    It's happened a couple of times. There was a mini champions reunion during the World War Hulk crossover. It only involved Angel and Hercules though. The other characters were replaced by Namora and Cho. They were trying to make up for a mistake that the champions made in a story set in the past. Their team was called the Renegades.
    Actually I wouldn't mind seeing a reunion between those four characters.

    The second time that the Champions had a reunion happened in the Iceman monthly written by Grace. It was a one and done story where the surviving members of the original champions got togather to mourn Black Widow, who was dead at the time.

    I'm not sure if you have read those stories or not.

  8. #38
    The Spirits of Vengeance K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thievery View Post
    I will admit that I did not see that one coming. It would be interesting to see.

    It's happened a couple of times. There was a mini champions reunion during the World War Hulk crossover. It only involved Angel and Hercules though. The other characters were replaced by Namora and Cho. They were trying to make up for a mistake that the champions made in a story set in the past. Their team was called the Renegades.
    Actually I wouldn't mind seeing a reunion between those four characters.

    The second time that the Champions had a reunion happened in the Iceman monthly written by Grace. It was a one and done story where the surviving members of the original champions got togather to mourn Black Widow, who was dead at the time.

    I'm not sure if you have read those stories or not.
    Sadly, I don't remember reading either one. But, I do remember the 1998 Annual

    Last edited by K7P5V; 02-08-2023 at 04:58 AM. Reason: Added Helpful Link.

  9. #39
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thievery View Post
    I have to admit that the Duggan run on X-Men isn't doing it for me. The stories are a little to hit or miss. The ones I like I really like. The ones that I don't like I really don't like. To many roster changes. Yes I know that makes me look like a hypocrite for trying to vote for Dazzler in the X-Men fan vote after complaining about roster changes.

    Any reason in particular that you want Warren on the main team other than that it has been so long since he has been on one? You maybe want him reunited with Cyclops, Jean, and Iceman. I'm not overly fond of putting Warren on the main team for that reason. I think that I would rather see something new. Plus I have to be honest, I just don't like Iceman. It also might be a better idea if you reunited all of The O5 togather at the same time. I think that I would have rather seen Archangel on the main team when Polaris was on it. If Firestar and Warren ended up on the team at the the same time that could be nice I guess.

    Still, what kind of stories would you want to see Warren take part in if he were to somehow end up on the main squad.
    And please don't take offense. I'm not trying to poop on what you would like to see.
    .
    Well theres no guarantee that those characters will be in Year 3 of his X-men. Jean and Scott most likely. but Iceman could get dropped. Year 2 is largely different than Year 1 so this could potentially expose him to characters he typically has not interated much with. I want him on the main squad to elevate him. This is the official Xmen tam and the one that tends to get used in events and make appearances throughout the MU. Sync and Polaris for example have been used in that capacity and that likely wouldnt have happened otherwise

    I have no clue what type of story I want to se him in but i want something original and not piggybagging off of what was done with him in the past.

  10. #40
    Astonishing Member Thievery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K7P5V View Post
    Sadly, I don't remember reading either one. But, I do remember the 1998 Annual


    I remember reading this issue. It took me a while to find it once I learned that it existed. All I will say about it was that I didn't think that it was very good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Well theres no guarantee that those characters will be in Year 3 of his X-men. Jean and Scott most likely. but Iceman could get dropped. Year 2 is largely different than Year 1 so this could potentially expose him to characters he typically has not interated much with. I want him on the main squad to elevate him. This is the official Xmen tam and the one that tends to get used in events and make appearances throughout the MU. Sync and Polaris for example have been used in that capacity and that likely wouldnt have happened otherwise

    I have no clue what type of story I want to se him in but i want something original and not piggybagging off of what was done with him in the past.
    Okay, you would like to see Archangel's profile given a boost and think that a run on the main team will do that for him. What characters would you like to see him interact with if got that boost and gained more exposure in the wider Marvel Universe?

    Angel would likely need some sort of story idea or hook to keep him relevant if he only lasted for one year on the main team. You have any ideas for what those could be?

  11. #41
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    Maybe Warren can hook up with Maddy and Alex and whatever hopefully TPTB have planned for them. It appears that the Dark Web crossover seemed to be mainly about moving the chess pieces that are Havok and the Goblin Queen to a particular part of the board for some reason. The three of them do have a history in a way. In Mutant X when our Alex was transported to an alternative earth, that universe's Havok was on a team with Maddy, his wife and a sort of demonic version of Archangel, think bat wings instead of metallic ones. Archangel is #3 on my list of underused X-characters I like. So I would love to see him on a team with the top two. Whether that be an Uncanny Avengers or a new Hellions book.

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member Thievery's Avatar
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    I think that I could get behind the idea of Archangel working with Havok and Maddy. I like stories that focus on the Angel gimmick of Warren's powers and codename instead of looking at Warren like a bird the way that most writers do. Austen tried for that but the results didn't turn out to well. Maddy is basically a demon Queen and I think it would be interesting to see a guy who calls himself Angel working with a sorcerer from a place like Limbo. I liked seeing Archangel with Magik when they made rare appearances togather for the same reason.

    I know about the version of Warren from Mutant X. He was called The Fallen. I don't really know how that would give Warren a connection to Havok and Maddy though.

    I'm not sure what would want to make Angel want to work with the two of them but it's a neat idea.

  13. #43
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thievery View Post
    I think that I could get behind the idea of Archangel working with Havok and Maddy. I like stories that focus on the Angel gimmick of Warren's powers and codename instead of looking at Warren like a bird the way that most writers do. Austen tried for that but the results didn't turn out to well. Maddy is basically a demon Queen and I think it would be interesting to see a guy who calls himself Angel working with a sorcerer from a place like Limbo. I liked seeing Archangel with Magik when they made rare appearances togather for the same reason.

    I know about the version of Warren from Mutant X. He was called The Fallen. I don't really know how that would give Warren a connection to Havok and Maddy though.

    I'm not sure what would want to make Angel want to work with the two of them but it's a neat idea.
    It doesnt. It was an alternate Warren and Maddie whom dont exist in this timeline. Warren has enough history being X-men together during the 60s days, Austen's run and off/on since. I dont think Mutant X is an angle they would use or even could to tie the characters especailly since thats never acknowledged for Havok anyway

  14. #44
    Astonishing Member Thievery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    It doesnt. It was an alternate Warren and Maddie whom dont exist in this timeline. Warren has enough history being X-men together during the 60s days, Austen's run and off/on since. I dont think Mutant X is an angle they would use or even could to tie the characters especailly since thats never acknowledged for Havok anyway
    Yeah, using the main reality history with Angel and Havok/Maddie is the way to go. I'm a little bit surprised at how seldom Warren and Havok actually cross paths. They don't even spend much time on panel talking with each other even when they were teammates in Austen's run if I remeber correctly.

    But going back to The Fallen look and powers. I prefer the metal wings on Archangel. But if you wanted Warren to work with Maddie than maybe the bat wings and other powers that The Fallen had could be useful in stories. You could even have Warren switch back and fourth between the feather winged Angel form and the bat winged Fallen form. Sort of the same way that he switches back and forth between the feathered wings and metal wings.

  15. #45
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thievery View Post
    Yeah, using the main reality history with Angel and Havok/Maddie is the way to go. I'm a little bit surprised at how seldom Warren and Havok actually cross paths. They don't even spend much time on panel talking with each other even when they were teammates in Austen's run if I remeber correctly.

    But going back to The Fallen look and powers. I prefer the metal wings on Archangel. But if you wanted Warren to work with Maddie than maybe the bat wings and other powers that The Fallen had could be useful in stories. You could even have Warren switch back and fourth between the feather winged Angel form and the bat winged Fallen form. Sort of the same way that he switches back and forth between the feathered wings and metal wings.
    I dont see the point of that and it would unnecessarily complicate him even more. The metal wing at least serve a function. I dont see what bat wings could add besides a new aesthetic

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