How old should Diana be when she first comes to Man's World?

[Agent Z]

Let's put it this way, Steve arrived at just the right moment, because it wouldn't take much longer for her to leave on her own.

If Steve didn't arrive there in 30 years, she wouldn't wait 100 years to leave with him.

You're assuming she'd experience time the same way we do. A 100 years wouldn't be any different from 30 years for her.

[Primal Slayer]

I don't see Diana being alive 20 years and already deciding on that she'll leave the island, especially if there's zero catalyst for it. Would she wonder about the outside world? Yes.

But to become as good of a warrior and knowledgeable as she is, she'll have seen some things on the island for some time.

Giving up Paradise is a hard thing to do

[John Venus]

Between 20-25. I feel like 18 is too young and it casts her romance with Steve in a different light. As an AF pilot he would have to be late 20's and/or older.

[Alpha]

You're assuming she'd experience time the same way we do. A 100 years wouldn't be any different from 30 years for her.

We've had this discussion before. Being immortal doesn't make time speed up for you. The minutes still have 60 seconds, the hour still has 60 minutes, the day still has 24 hours, the week still has 7 days, and the month still has 365 days. When she does the same thing day after day, year after year, she still feels the dragging routine.

[Alpha]

In Perez's run aren't they on the island for 3,000 years before Diana is born?

Yup. Masterwitcher88's comment came out of nowhere, because Historia is the only origin where Diana is made the moment the amazons arrive. In most versions Diana is made long after, usually no suggestion she is older than she appears. And then there's one of the various Robert Kanigher origins, where she was made before the amazons left our world.

[Alpha]

I don't see Diana being alive 20 years and already deciding on that she'll leave the island, especially if there's zero catalyst for it. Would she wonder about the outside world? Yes.

But to become as good of a warrior and knowledgeable as she is, she'll have seen some things on the island for some time.

Giving up Paradise is a hard thing to do

Seen what? It's paradise, not Mordor. 30 years of training with the amazons is a whole lot of time, and 100 years doesn't make her any better as a fighter if she's still training with the same people

[Perseus]

I just really don't see a problem with Diana being thousands of years old regardless of if she wants to leave or otherwise. She's an immortal too. And actually, time does make you a better fighter...

[Primal Slayer]

Seen what? It's paradise, not Mordor. 30 years of training with the amazons is a whole lot of time, and 100 years doesn't make her any better as a fighter if she's still training with the same people

There's plenty to explore on the island, wars to happen, dooms doorway, get pulled into the games of the gods before she goes to leave the island.

[Alpha]

And what would be the point of that?

[Primal Slayer]

And what would be the point of that?

She doesn't need to automatically want to and thus leave the island. It also helps shape her as a warrior.

[Alpha]

She doesn't need to automatically want to and thus leave the island. It also helps shape her as a warrior.

What's the point of her being 100 years old when she leaves the island, instead of 30?

[Guy_McNichts]

I think it's strange that Diana needs hundreds of years of training to be a great warrior while Batman, Black Canary, Cassandra Cain, and Lady Shiva (among others) can be just as good, if not better fighters in their twenties or younger.

[Primal Slayer]

I think it's strange that Diana needs hundreds of years of training to be a great warrior while Batman, Black Canary, Cassandra Cain, and Lady Shiva (among others) can be just as good, if not better fighters in their twenties or younger.

Has anyone stated she needs hundreds of years of training? I think most of us view her as being THE BEST amongst DC warriors/leaders and if we want to get into these other characters (which im fine with), I dont think Batmans little 4-5 years should put him up there anyway. Same with most characters.

Lets not act like any of us are trying to say that Diana needs more over someone else to be great when we're strictly talking about one person.

[bardkeep]

I mentioned before that I'm open to either the hundreds/thousands of years old approach or the 20-something approach, but there are a lot of advantages to her leaving the island when she's older that have nothing to do with her being better at fighting:

- This is the biggest for me: It centers her relationship with Hippolyta in her story and makes her departure all the more heartbreaking. I cried at the end of Historia because it was so devastating that Hippolyta's glimmer of hope when she'd lost everything was a daughter she was doomed to lose. That story loses almost all of its power when she has thousands of years to build herself back up before Diana's birth and only has her for a tiny piece of her immortal life.

- It gives more depth and agency to the Amazons. Too often it feels like their history is just a countdown to Diana's birth, and as soon as she's born she becomes the center of everything. If Diana's around for a long time, it puts her on a more even playing field with everyone else and keeps her from only knowing life as the ultra-special chosen one.

- It strengthens Diana's immigrant mindset. If she's 30 and then spends 100 years in Man's World, it weakens the "stranger in a strange land" element that's central to her character. It also connects her to her people's healing process and shows her what it looks like for a society to build free from the bonds of oppression, which would shape her mission and perspective on things quite a bit.

- It gets rid of any possible weirdness with her dating other Amazons. I think it's fine for a 20-30something Diana to date other Amazons in any case, but the biggest point of contention I've seen is that it'd be odd for other Amazons to pursue her when she's the baby. If she's older, that problem goes away - what's a 20some year age gap when both parties are hundreds or even thousands of years old? Her being condemned to chastity on the island makes her decision to leave less meaningful IMO.

- The Amazons and Themyscira are awesome. There's an infinite number of stories you could tell about Diana exploring all of the neat magical things on the island.

[Alpha]

I mentioned before that I'm open to either the hundreds/thousands of years old approach or the 20-something approach, but there are a lot of advantages to her leaving the island when she's older that have nothing to do with her being better at fighting:

I enjoy discussing these things and I'm glad you have points to being up. After contemplating this is what I have to say.

- This is the biggest for me: It centers her relationship with Hippolyta in her story and makes her departure all the more heartbreaking. I cried at the end of Historia because it was so devastating that Hippolyta's glimmer of hope when she'd lost everything was a daughter she was doomed to lose. That story loses almost all of its power when she has thousands of years to build herself back up before Diana's birth and only has her for a tiny piece of her immortal life.

That's definitely heartbreaking, I totally get that. But it being heartbreaking is good and justified storytelling.

Hippolyta and Diana still have a strong relationship in plenty of continuities, and are able to communicate. And I still wouldn't write Diana out of character just to make Hippolyta's life more simple. If anything, Hippolyta's desire to spend more time with Diana is a great motive for the amazons to somehow open up to the world.

- It gives more depth and agency to the Amazons. Too often it feels like their history is just a countdown to Diana's birth, and as soon as she's born she becomes the center of everything. If Diana's around for a long time, it puts her on a more even playing field with everyone else and keeps her from only knowing life as the ultra-special chosen one.

That is an argument I totally disagree with. Krypton has a history long before Kal-el, and if Clark experienced those things, it would totally change his themes and would make Krypton's story also his story, when it doesn't have to be.

Diana being alive earlier also means that instead of it being a story about Hippolyta and Philippus and Io and Alkyone's civil war, it now also becomes a story about Diana fighting Alkyone or maybe being corrupted.

- It strengthens Diana's immigrant mindset. If she's 30 and then spends 100 years in Man's World, it weakens the "stranger in a strange land" element that's central to her character. It also connects her to her people's healing process and shows her what it looks like for a society to build free from the bonds of oppression, which would shape her mission and perspective on things quite a bit.

Diana learning the trauma that the amazons went through, and realizing that even though it happened long before she was born, but it's still somewhere in their hearts, doesn't need her being part of those conflicts.

And 30 years in our home is long after someone has formed their solidified identity.

- It gets rid of any possible weirdness with her dating other Amazons. I think it's fine for a 20-30something Diana to date other Amazons in any case, but the biggest point of contention I've seen is that it'd be odd for other Amazons to pursue her when she's the baby. If she's older, that problem goes away - what's a 20some year age gap when both parties are hundreds or even thousands of years old? Her being condemned to chastity on the island makes her decision to leave less meaningful IMO.

We have the Well of souls, which canonized my headcanon that various women joined the island along the millenia. In fact, I think I think someone should establish that when Diana was 17 years old, Mala came out of the Well of Souls and became an amazon. She was 20 years old and the two of them grew close because Diana wanted to know what the world out there was like, and because they were of a similar age.

- The Amazons and Themyscira are awesome. There's an infinite number of stories you could tell about Diana exploring all of the neat magical things on the island.

Sure, but you don't need 100 years to do that, and those stories don't need to be set in the past.