ASM17 Spoilers and Review: the Demon Bugle

[ARkadelphia]

Can someone explain to me how it is that in a story about Ben trying to consume Peter’s soul in order to become complete again has given us a character that looks like someone put Venom, Spidercide and a Battletoad into a blender with a Spider-Man suit and then poured in into a Venom mold? It’s like looking into the eyes of madness.

Blame Maddie

[Spidey_62]

I don't think it's so much that people are against "light" stories so much as there is a severe case of tonal dissonance in this story with everything going on and Wells' run in general and Wells hasn't really earned it.

I get that, it is very much a hard swerve compared to the tone the prelude issue set up but I welcome the seemingly-farcical turn it's taken. I think it makes more sense than nonsense. I'd say there's been a lot of elements of deconstruction being at the center of this run over all the arcs, with characters having to reevaluate their places in the world (Peter through the earlier arcs off his game, MJ being off with Paul, Osborn being good, JJJ's redemption, Ben being evil). With Ben it's like him trying to present a version of things that's incompatible with how they've changed presently via his unreliable memory (making Spidey fight 90s Venom again, trying to hit all the classic status quo lines of dialogue/setting).

Ben is trying to chase the 'classic' ideal Spidey life and he's missing the sauce with how that doesn't even exist anymore for Peter either, and everybody has just had to make due with things and keep moving forward.

[TinkerSpider]

I get that, it is very much a hard swerve compared to the tone the prelude issue set up but I welcome the seemingly-farcical turn it's taken. I think it makes more sense than nonsense. I'd say there's been a lot of elements of deconstruction being at the center of this run over all the arcs, with characters having to reevaluate their places in the world (Peter through the earlier arcs off his game, MJ being off with Paul, Osborn being good, JJJ's redemption, Ben being evil). With Ben it's like him trying to present a version of things that's incompatible with how they've changed presently via his unreliable memory (making Spidey fight 90s Venom again, trying to hit all the classic status quo lines of dialogue/setting).

Ben is trying to chase the 'classic' ideal Spidey life and he's missing the sauce with how that doesn't even exist anymore for Peter either, and everybody has just had to make due with things and keep moving forward.

That would be a great characterization of Ben, and explanation of his actions. And it would lend this event some gravitas and relevance. This run, even.

But again, too bad none of this is on the page and there is nothing in the text to indicate that Wells is deconstructing or doing anything but willy nilly pulling stuff out of his dark place where the sun don’t shine without any thought or plan.

To deconstruct, there has to be something that was first constructed. But Wells’s run is just…nihilism. There’s no there there. There’s certainly no attempt at anything resembling characterization, in part because Wells hamstrung himself with the mystery boxes so that none of the characters can have an internal life because if they did, the reader would know what happened because the reader is the only one in the dark - the characters all know.

The tonal dissonance is just part and parcel of the emptiness and disjointed, nothing matters or has any real relevance feel of the run.

Look, I like a literary experiment and playing with form and structure and genre and tropes and expectations as much as the next person. Probably even more. But if this is indeed Wells’s intent - and if it is, he is unsuccessful at communicating that intent to the reader - I’d like to put forward that Amazing Spider-Man is perhaps not the place for one’s writing experiment. Go pitch your experiment as a side title, a Life Story or a Deadly Neighborhood or a Reign or a 1610 Spider-Man, be my guest. Or write your creator owned title. Put out your version of Invincible. Win your Eisner.

But readers come to ASM for a specific experience. And this ain’t it.

[Refrax5]

I get that, it is very much a hard swerve compared to the tone the prelude issue set up but I welcome the seemingly-farcical turn it's taken. I think it makes more sense than nonsense. I'd say there's been a lot of elements of deconstruction being at the center of this run over all the arcs, with characters having to reevaluate their places in the world (Peter through the earlier arcs off his game, MJ being off with Paul, Osborn being good, JJJ's redemption, Ben being evil). With Ben it's like him trying to present a version of things that's incompatible with how they've changed presently via his unreliable memory (making Spidey fight 90s Venom again, trying to hit all the classic status quo lines of dialogue/setting).

Ben is trying to chase the 'classic' ideal Spidey life and he's missing the sauce with how that doesn't even exist anymore for Peter either, and everybody has just had to make due with things and keep moving forward.

Yeah, Wells saying Ben was going to be a tragic figure and then writing him as a goofy cartoon just feels pretty callous. I liked the prelude where Ben was being taken seriously and the story felt ominous, but now it's turned into this wacky clown-show and it just feels like Wells doesn't care that much about this job.

[Vegeta]

I guess I just wasn't as offended by this issue as the rest of you all, then again I tend to read a fair amount of "sillier" books such as Invader Zim and the Archie Digests. The demons working at the Bugle and what not remind me a bit of the demons from the TV series "the Good Place" where in both series they are required to act like humans but really just want to bite people instead. I also am enjoying the various designs McGuinness has come up with. Hideous but somehow also adorable. I also thought the little demon being inspired to become a hero after Peter saved him was cute, but I wonder if how he obtained his powers will come back to bite him in the end. Jameson's plan to get all the demons riled up over what they were missing was funny as well. (Sidenote: his bed reminded me of Chairry from Pee Wee's Playhouse.)

Also Ben can also easily rebound from this storyline, other "character assassinations" have been waaaaay worse in the past (Iron Man in Civil War, Cyclops in AvX, Cap in Secret Empire, etc.) and these characters have all bounced back fine.

[Frontier]

Honestly I'm just tired of Spider-Man needing to get saved all the time.

[Alex_Of_X]

I hear you there. Spider-Man/Peter inspiring demons in Limbo to take up heroism (or general goodness) in his name and honor would definitely be something. Makes me think of when Meggan Braddock was in hell and got kicked out because she'd started a (surprisingly successful) revolution based on hope and love that actually inspired the demons there. Somewhere in Captain Britain and MI:13, if I'm not mistaken.

I LOVE THAT SERIES. More stories about Dracula on the Moon, please!

[CaptainUniverse]

I LOVE THAT SERIES. More stories about Dracula on the Moon, please!

Dracula? Moon? THE? Tell me more!

[Spidey_62]

That would be a great characterization of Ben, and explanation of his actions. And it would lend this event some gravitas and relevance. This run, even.

But again, too bad none of this is on the page and there is nothing in the text to indicate that Wells is deconstructing or doing anything but willy nilly pulling stuff out of his dark place where the sun don’t shine without any thought or plan.

To deconstruct, there has to be something that was first constructed. But Wells’s run is just…nihilism. There’s no there there. There’s certainly no attempt at anything resembling characterization, in part because Wells hamstrung himself with the mystery boxes so that none of the characters can have an internal life because if they did, the reader would know what happened because the reader is the only one in the dark - the characters all know.

The tonal dissonance is just part and parcel of the emptiness and disjointed, nothing matters or has any real relevance feel of the run.

Look, I like a literary experiment and playing with form and structure and genre and tropes and expectations as much as the next person. Probably even more. But if this is indeed Wells’s intent - and if it is, he is unsuccessful at communicating that intent to the reader - I’d like to put forward that Amazing Spider-Man is perhaps not the place for one’s writing experiment. Go pitch your experiment as a side title, a Life Story or a Deadly Neighborhood or a Reign or a 1610 Spider-Man, be my guest. Or write your creator owned title. Put out your version of Invincible. Win your Eisner.

But readers come to ASM for a specific experience. And this ain’t it.

That's all fair haha. The series doesn't give me confidence very often these days that it's actually trying to say things, but I feel like there's some dots that can be connected- whether they're the intent or not we don't know for sure yet- realistically probably not lol, but I try to be charitable and hope the goal of the book isn't just to say "mash Hellions and Spider-Man together toy go boom, clone man angry, fight Venom too cool!" yet having too many of those components as Marvel loves to do can always hamper whatever the core of the story may be sometimes.

[Alex_Of_X]

Dracula? Moon? THE? Tell me more!

Dude it's DEMENTED stuff! Cap Britain going against this while Secret Invasion was happening?

vampire-states-balony.jpgvampire-states-pirate-ship.jpg

This is the stuff of legend

[CaptainUniverse]

Dude it's DEMENTED stuff! Cap Britain going against this while Secret Invasion was happening?

vampire-states-balony.jpgvampire-states-pirate-ship.jpg

This is the stuff of legend

It appears that I made a serious error in judgment when I decided to pass up Captain Britain and MI:13 all those years ago. Now I gotta go find it. Thanks!

[Sr. Bungle]

It appears that I made a serious error in judgment when I decided to pass up Captain Britain and MI:13 all those years ago. Now I gotta go find it. Thanks!

I second the recommendation of Alex, is a really great book by Cornell

[Pav]

Dude it's DEMENTED stuff! Cap Britain going against this while Secret Invasion was happening?

vampire-states-balony.jpgvampire-states-pirate-ship.jpg

This is the stuff of legend

It appears that I made a serious error in judgment when I decided to pass up Captain Britain and MI:13 all those years ago. Now I gotta go find it. Thanks!

I second the recommendation of Alex, is a really great book by Cornell

Thirded! Captain Britain and MI:13 is an excellent series from beginning to end. Great mix of characters, awesome action, intriguing twists. Friendly reminder that the Pete Wisdom MAX series serves as kind of a prequel to the CB:MI13 series and is just as good.

I really miss that era, when Marvel was more willing to put out minis for their B- and C-list characters.

-Pav, who enjoyed discovering new characters that way...

[Refrax5]

I guess I just wasn't as offended by this issue as the rest of you all, then again I tend to read a fair amount of "sillier" books such as Invader Zim and the Archie Digests. The demons working at the Bugle and what not remind me a bit of the demons from the TV series "the Good Place" where in both series they are required to act like humans but really just want to bite people instead. I also am enjoying the various designs McGuinness has come up with. Hideous but somehow also adorable. I also thought the little demon being inspired to become a hero after Peter saved him was cute, but I wonder if how he obtained his powers will come back to bite him in the end. Jameson's plan to get all the demons riled up over what they were missing was funny as well. (Sidenote: his bed reminded me of Chairry from Pee Wee's Playhouse.)

Also Ben can also easily rebound from this storyline, other "character assassinations" have been waaaaay worse in the past (Iron Man in Civil War, Cyclops in AvX, Cap in Secret Empire, etc.) and these characters have all bounced back fine.

I agree that Ben can easily rebound from this, but I'm mostly just annoyed that Wells and Lowe pretended that Ben was going to be this tragic character and fearsome new adversary, but in his big debut as Chasm, he's just a wacky shallow character. If you're going to do something this controversial to a character, at least PRETEND to care. If it were a random Spidey story, I would probably be easier on it, but this issue felt like Wells cared more about Rek-Rap than Ben or even Peter himself.

[Huntsman Spider]

I guess I just wasn't as offended by this issue as the rest of you all, then again I tend to read a fair amount of "sillier" books such as Invader Zim and the Archie Digests. The demons working at the Bugle and what not remind me a bit of the demons from the TV series "the Good Place" where in both series they are required to act like humans but really just want to bite people instead. I also am enjoying the various designs McGuinness has come up with. Hideous but somehow also adorable. I also thought the little demon being inspired to become a hero after Peter saved him was cute, but I wonder if how he obtained his powers will come back to bite him in the end. Jameson's plan to get all the demons riled up over what they were missing was funny as well. (Sidenote: his bed reminded me of Chairry from Pee Wee's Playhouse.)

Also Ben can also easily rebound from this storyline, other "character assassinations" have been waaaaay worse in the past (Iron Man in Civil War, Cyclops in AvX, Cap in Secret Empire, etc.) and these characters have all bounced back fine.

Funny enough, Captain America in Secret Empire already had the perfect out --- he had his memories and personal history tampered with by a living Cosmic Cube under the control of the Red Skull, who essentially did to him what he'd previously done to Sam Wilson when he created "Snap Wilson" as his "real" backstory, and then at the end, he (as well as the reality he came from) turned out to be an outright construct of that same living Cosmic Cube at the direction of the Red Skull, with the real Steve Rogers coming back to defeat him and set things right. With Iron Man in Civil War and Cyclops in Avengers Vs. X-Men, for better or worse, that was them, as far as canon went, and they still had to live with the black marks on their otherwise-good names from what happened and what they did in those events.