Nightwing #100 Preview

[phonogram12]

I didn't have an issue with Anna Diop's casting but I never thought of her as either Caucasion or black.

Fair enough. I'm just saying as a POC, you tend to notice when even differently colored aliens look more white than anything else.

Outside of maybe that issue in King's run where he and Batman basically beat each other to death no one really treats him as that dangerous any more.

Like I said before blame Dixon. He set that unfortunate precedent. That said, I tend to take what I find good stories more than less than memorable stories as canon, so King's version is what I'm going by.

I'd have to read it myself, though I'm sure Steph can provide at least something.

Probably a shorter fight sure, but I don't really think Cass would lose without her help.

I don't really see him that way since he does lose and gets beat up frequently, he just has a very high barometer of skill in contrast to his personality issues (which prevents him from being a marty stu in my opinion).

I don't see it that differently from Cass's capabilities.

I mean, didn't Damien design/redesign his own Batmobile? Cass couldn't even read or speak when she was first introduced. So she certainly wasn't good at everything the way that Damien was introduced. Anyway, it's probably more pronounced in Damien since he's not shy in the least about telling everyone how great he is lol.

[Triniking1234]

How is Damian a Marty Stu when:
- he was wrong during Robin War
- he almost lost to Deathstroke
- he couldn't beat evil Tim Drake
- he couldn't beat Bane and his evil grandfather
- he lost to Conner Hawke twice

[Frontier]

How is Damian a Marty Stu when:
- he was wrong during Robin War
- he almost lost to Deathstroke
- he couldn't beat evil Tim Drake
- he couldn't beat Bane and his evil grandfather
- he lost to Conner Hawke twice

Yeah, Damian acts all high and mighty and he's incredibly capable but he loses or gets beat up a decent amount.

[phonogram12]

Most of Damien's earliest stories put me so off of the character that the only time I really could tolerate him was during Tomasi's Batman & Robin run and that's mostly because Bruce was there to put him in his place. This doesn't happen anywhere near enough. I'll just never be on board with such an unrepentantly privileged and entitled Robin.

[Frontier]

Most of Damien's earliest stories put me so off of the character that the only time I really could tolerate him was during Tomasi's Batman & Robin run and that's mostly because Bruce was there to put him in his place. This doesn't happen anywhere near enough. I'll just never be on board with such an unrepentantly privileged and entitled Robin.

I mean, having read most of his appearances, I feel like he gets put in his place fairly consistently. Even just his initial Robin tenure with Dick was teaching him more humility and building him up to a more genuinely heroic person to the point where he dies trying to save someone as a true hero compared to the person he initially started out as, though your mileage may vary.

[Godlike13]

I mean, didn't Damien design/redesign his own Batmobile? Cass couldn't even read or speak when she was first introduced. So she certainly wasn't good at everything the way that Damien was introduced. Anyway, it's probably more pronounced in Damien since he's not shy in the least about telling everyone how great he is lol.

Cass’ inability to speak or read has never caused her to fail at anything. Which is ridiculous because it really should, and it would make he far more interesting. It only served to invoke sympathy. Where Damian’s skills and perceived greatness has caused him to fail time and time again. Him telling everyone how great he is is not ever treated as a positive character trait, but to show his arrogance and flawed personality.
Its actually opposite of characters like Cass and Tim, where everyone else is constantly telling them and others that their the greatest. Understand Damian’s early stories we’re supposed to put you off. He came in as a heel.

How is Damian a Marty Stu when:
- he was wrong during Robin War
- he almost lost to Deathstroke
- he couldn't beat evil Tim Drake
- he couldn't beat Bane and his evil grandfather
- he lost to Conner Hawke twice

Ya, a lot of times Damian’s skills and abilities are played up only for him to fall flat on his face. Like a good number of his stories is about that, about how despite all his skills and abilities he still has a lot to learn.

[dreyga2000]

Cass’ inability to speak or read has never caused her to fail at anything.

Not true. In her own series back in 2000's Cassandra Cain struggled against threats that required her more than brute force. EX. finding a missing girl who got kidnapped, solving a murder, looking for clues. So she had new goal of learning how to be detective, which was a legitimately challenging because of her illiteracy

[SixSpeedSamurai]

How is Damian a Marty Stu when:
- he was wrong during Robin War
- he almost lost to Deathstroke
- he couldn't beat evil Tim Drake
- he couldn't beat Bane and his evil grandfather
- he lost to Conner Hawke twice

How many things on this list happened in the last few years? With the exception of Robin War, all of them. Historically, he's been a Marty Stu.

I did enjoy his last series, aside from the Shadow War crossover though.

[Digifiend]

I don't know if Anna Diop commented as such but I assumed it was for practical TV reasons.

Definitely. Beast Boy doesn't have his green skin either. It wasn't just that Diop refused to do the makeup.

[Frontier]

How many things on this list happened in the last few years? With the exception of Robin War, all of them. Historically, he's been a Marty Stu.

I did enjoy his last series, aside from the Shadow War crossover though.

He got the rug pulled out from under him in Morrison's run quite a bit if I recall correctly.

[Drako]

He got the rug pulled out from under him in Morrison's run quite a bit if I recall correctly.

If i'm not mistaken in Batman and Robin he got: Captured by Mr. Pig, punked by Red Hood, stabbed by his sidekick that didn't had any training whatsoever, almost killed by Flamingo, thrown out of a buidling by Zombie Batman, mind controlled by Deathstroke and capture by the Joker.

He got kinda owned in every arc of that book by Morrison.

[phonogram12]

How many things on this list happened in the last few years? With the exception of Robin War, all of them. Historically, he's been a Marty Stu.

This. Plus, the times that he clearly does mess up or fall short he pretty much never learns from his mistakes and continues to be the privileged, entitled brat he always seems to be. It'd be one thing if it was charming or showed the least bit of growth as a character, but neither ever really seems to apply.

[Leancarp900]

How is Damian a Marty Stu when:
- he was wrong during Robin War
- he almost lost to Deathstroke
- he couldn't beat evil Tim Drake
- he couldn't beat Bane and his evil grandfather
- he lost to Conner Hawke twice

People typically use the term Marty Stu (or Mary Sue) to say "a character I don't like".

Damian is not a Marty Stu. His character flaws are very evident.

[HsssH]

If i'm not mistaken in Batman and Robin he got: Captured by Mr. Pig, punked by Red Hood, stabbed by his sidekick that didn't had any training whatsoever, almost killed by Flamingo, thrown out of a buidling by Zombie Batman, mind controlled by Deathstroke and capture by the Joker.

He got kinda owned in every arc of that book by Morrison.

If I remember right he also was blown up in his first story (Batman and Son) and required multiple donor transplants to survive. Or Batman Inc. where he got beaten and killed by Heretic.

Frankly at this point I'm not sure what certain people even read to get the impression that Damian is Marty Stu. It is especially weird when many of those people are fans of characters that literally have "Greatest X in DC Universe" as their defining character traits.

[Mantis-Ray]

If I remember right he also was blown up in his first story (Batman and Son) and required multiple donor transplants to survive. Or Batman Inc. where he got beaten and killed by Heretic.

Frankly at this point I'm not sure what certain people even read to get the impression that Damian is Marty Stu. It is especially weird when many of those people are fans of characters that literally have "Greatest X in DC Universe" as their defining character traits.

I feel like its in part more of an adaptation thing.

Like the DC animated movies starting from Son of Batman arguably made him more I guess "Marty Stu-ish" such as in Son of Batman where things were changed up to make him look better such as defeating Deathstroke in one to one combat or Batman vs Robin where Dick's Talon storyline got uprooted onto Damian.

And just generally receiving excessive focus at the expense of other characters and a bizarre romance with Raven.