AVENGERS vs JL

[Gaastra]

Crossovers are not considered as valid for evidence on Rumbles.

If you say so but it is canon with both marvel and dc.

Would that be the 'Squirrel Girl defeats the Marvel Universe' mini or something of that kind?

It was in her main canon book series that lasted 50 issues and the kraven story from it was even talked about in one of spider-man's big events.

She has in canon books defeated thanos knocking him out, defeated wolverine in seconds, defeated modak, fin fang foom and deadpool three times. Defeated doom twice. All in canon books.

That's why they banned her from that jla vs avengers event. She is marvels version of the mask. She can beat anyone.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Talk my butt. She beats him easy, takes a photo of her on his knock to the ground body, makes him HER Harald and lets him go later!

[IMG][/IMG]

He got his butt kicked!

That's from them laying down and chilling after she's talked him out of attacking earth. You need context for these things you know.

[Sharpandpointies]

If you say so but it is canon with both marvel and dc.

Regardless, it's not valid for evidence on Rumbles due to being a crossover.

It was in her main canon book series that lasted 50 issues and the kraven story from it was even talked about in one of spider-man's big events.

She has in canon books defeated thanos knocking him out, defeated wolverine in seconds, defeated modak, fin fang foom and deadpool three times. Defeated doom twice. All in canon books.

That's why they banned her from that jla vs avengers event. She is marvels version of the mask. She can beat anyone.

None of which allows her, on Rumbles, to ignore the rules of evidence we use on this forum.

Take, for example, her 'defeat' of Dr. Doom. She beat him by attacking him with squirrels, perfectly ordinary squirrels that somehow managed to get into Doom's armor.

But Doom's armor is sealed, is tough enough to take a beating from the Thing, and uses a force field that has withstood Thor hitting it. Perfectly ordinary squirrels have no way of damaging it.

Rumbles tosses that kind of thing out as bad writing that 100% ignores the capabilities of a character in order to make another character look good.

The Thanos defeat happens off-panel. We don't see how she won. We don't see what situational things might have happened. And even the business of the Watcher talking about how it is the 'one, true Thanos' is called into question because later on the exact same writer reveals that Thanos can make clones that can fool cosmics, including the Watcher.

So that is generally ignored by Rumbles.

Basically, Rumbles does not operate by 'Toon-logic'. Doreen is plenty powerful and strong - she can throw around military vehicles and construction vehicles, she's very fast, her claws cut through all kinds of things. Her beating Wolverine? We're fine with that. Same with her beating Deadpool. Her consistent, high-end feats that match her non-Toon presentation work with that.

But that's about where she stands for Rumbles, based on the rules.

Edit: Also, other sites have different standards of evidence and different rules than Rumbles, so what happens on other sites has very little meaning toward what happens here and vice versa.

Edit edit: I also see we have discussed this before.

That's from them laying down and chilling after she's talked him out of attacking earth. You need context for these things you know.

Is that so?

Even worse, then. Misrepresentation or mistake, Gaastra?

[Nik Hasta]

Seeing a fair amount of what feels like people taking stuff from respect threads without context going on recently.

[Beadle]

Marvel is weird with this the same way DC is weird with speed, I figure. They end up with a whole lot of PIS (like DC), or they then exile the character into Do-Nothing Land for the next while until they get nerfed.

*Weeps for Genis-Vell*

[Sharpandpointies]

*Weeps for Genis-Vell*

*pats on shoulder* There, there.

[Alan2099]

The Thanos defeat happens off-panel. We don't see how she won. We don't see what situational things might have happened. And even the business of the Watcher talking about how it is the 'one, true Thanos' is called into question because later on the exact same writer reveals that Thanos can make clones that can fool cosmics, including the Watcher.

That same writer (even the same link you provided) that gives us the "Thanos clones can trick the Watcher" excuse also had that excuse coming from a clone with altered memories. So, who do you want to belive? A clone created to discredit Thanos's enemies and who can't even trust his own memories, or The Watcher?

[Sharpandpointies]

That same writer (even the same link you provided) that gives us the "Thanos clones can trick the Watcher" excuse also had that excuse coming from a clone with altered memories. So, who do you want to belive? A clone created to discredit Thanos's enemies and who can't even trust his own memories, or The Watcher?

So, maybe a valid point. I mean, the memory in question is a memory the clone had of the actual Thanos talking about how nothing would be able to distinguish the clone, and that memory was sealed behind a barrier so that the clone themselves couldn't even remember them. By who? Real-Thanos. Why? Because he doesn't want anyone to know the clone is a clone. So is there maybe something to the memory being real? Sure.

So, the question then becomes, which is it?

1. Squirrel Girl actually managed to (somehow, with a boatload of PIS or gimmes or situational stuff that has no bearing on her own abilities) defeat a clone of Thanos that was good enough to fool the Watcher; or

2. Squirrel Girl actually managed to (somehow, with a boatload of PIS or gimmes or situational stuff that has no bearing on her own abilities) defeat Thanos.

Or there's the third possibility, based on the above:

3. It doesn't really matter for Rumbles purposes, because it's a non-feat due to happening off-panel and requiring a boatload of PIS or gimmes or situational stuff that has no bearing on her abilities.

Flip a coin, but I would go with #3, myself. ^_^

[Alan2099]

I'm leaning more towards #2 myself.

[Sharpandpointies]

I'm leaning more towards #2 myself.

Fair enough! There's enough confusion over 'clone? Not clone?' I could see that going in any of the three directions, myself.

^_^

[cam18]

People say that JL is clear stronger, BUT based on what?

A) Scarlet Witch should theoretically be the most powerful characters of both teams or? I mean Zatanna and Dr. Fate are powerful, but still below Scarlet Witch or?
B) If you just call the 6-7 most powerful characters then I still think Avengers would have a good chance of winning.

Superman/Wonder Woman/Captain Atom/Shazam/Dr. Fate/Martian Manhunter vs Sentry/Hyperion/Thor/Scarlet Witch/Blue Marvel/Gladiator (ok he was never an Avenger-if I remember right) would be a good battle.

Scarlet Witch is far from the most powerful character on either team...not sure where that notion even comes from........Superman, Flash, Martian Manhunter, Various Green Lanterns including Ion Kyle, Dr Fate, Zatanna just to name a few....historically Scarlet Witch is not the powerhouse of the Avengers its Thor.

[Shellhead]

Scarlet Witch is far from the most powerful character on either team...not sure where that notion even comes from........Superman, Flash, Martian Manhunter, Various Green Lanterns including Ion Kyle, Dr Fate, Zatanna just to name a few....historically Scarlet Witch is not the powerhouse of the Avengers its Thor.

Scarlet Witch can alter reality on a planetary scale, but a mook with a gun could blow her brains out. And while she has bragged about being trained by Cap, she really can't take a punch.

[Alan2099]

Scarlet Witch can alter reality on a planetary scale, but a mook with a gun could blow her brains out. And while she has bragged about being trained by Cap, she really can't take a punch.

It's the whole glass canon thing. She COULD take out Superman, Dr. Fate, whoever... but she needs to be able to do that before they can react or before anyone can hit her.

[Wildling]

Scarlet Witch can alter reality on a planetary scale, but a mook with a gun could blow her brains out. And while she has bragged about being trained by Cap, she really can't take a punch.

I recall Hawkeye shot her in the back with the full intention to kill her and she warped the arrow off and got up like nothing happened. So her warping-ness can work for the effect of taking a punch, though assuming it works all the way up to a Superman punch is probably too much of a stretch.

[Captain Smith]

An arrow isn't an instant killer in most cases and if she retains consciousness, she can warp the attack away. Can she warp away something like an infinite mass punch at light speed into her head? If it hits, I don't think so unless she has set up some out of physical instantiation consciousness, like an astral body able to use her powers.