Thoughts on Wonder Woman killing Maxwell Lord

[Zahina]

How do you feel about Wonder Woman killing Maxwell Lord?

Did she do the right thing or it damaged her character as an ambassador and focused too much as a warrior?

[Gaius]

Worst thing to ever happen to the character.

Even more than Daddy Zeus.

- Done entirely for Superman’s and Batman’s benefit. That “friendship” can jump in a well for all I care.
- Ruined one of WW’s great runs and derailed the character in main comics until Rebirth.
- Saddled her with character no one cared about since the 80s as some “great WW villain”
- Pretty much solidified WW being “the one who does what needs to be done/”slay Queen”. Pseudo-mature rubbish.

I refuse to even partake in a “was she right?” debate. It was a poorly written series of contrivances so DC could get their stupid “broken Trinity” concept for that event no one cares about anymore. Had no actual proper buildup to it and like the rest of WW in Infinite Crisis, it only makes sense if that’s the only time in your life you’ve ever read WW.

[Primal Slayer]

The moment itself....I'm here for it.

I think she did the right thing but was treated horribly for it by her peers which wasn't surprising since they rather see more people die before anything happens to an enemy.

[Stanlos]

How do you feel about Wonder Woman killing Maxwell Lord?

Did she do the right thing or it damaged her character as an ambassador and focused too much as a warrior?

I think that due to Dan pooping on Rucka by reneging on the assurances made prior to execution (no pun) made it go down just like Byrne predicted it would. Had Rucka been able to do the fallout and the full discussion it would have been better.
However, it would still continue the departure begun with the Post Crisis revamp. It used to be that WW would be the LAST person to champion taking away someone's tomorrows. "There's always a better way" was her thing AND her kit made it so she really did have options.

Although Post Crisis depowered the Golden Lasso limiting its powers mainly to the domain of Truth, Perez and Berger defined the eff out of said Truth powers and they were the one flaw in Rucka's plot.

The other part that reeks is that neither WWs proclivity for killing nor Batman's paranoia were overcome at the end of IC. The DiDidiot and Johns claimed that Diana needed to be more Human so their Flashpoint and New 52 depowers her and makes her a daughter of Zeus from an imbalanced relationship where No wasn't an option? #MissMe

[Skytten]

The moment itself....I'm here for it.

I think she did the right thing but was treated horribly for it by her peers which wasn't surprising since they rather see more people die before anything happens to an enemy.

My thoughts exactly.

[Guy_McNichts]

I have mixed feelings on the whole thing.

The act itself doesn't bother me. Although the circumstances that led to Diana killing Max are a bit contrived, I believe that she believed it was her only choice. What was more important was--under Greg Rucka's writing at least--she only did it as a last resort, wasn't happy about it, and was perfectly willing to accept any consequences for her actions.

And I initially liked the fallout. Diana's life pretty much fell apart around her. Her reputation was in shambles, she had to become a fugitive to save Themyscira, her friends were turning their backs on her, the gods abandoned her...her back was against the wall, and it was good drama. I was into it and looking forward to where it would go.

Unfortunately, subsequent writers...named Geoff Johns....flushed all that nuance down the toilet and bungled the payoff in Infinite Crisis. After all the effort Rucka made in establishing her stance on killing, Johns reduced it to: "Diana kills her enemies and will get mad if you tell her not to."
Then he made it where the real problem is she isn't human and doesn't understand humans. So she gets a secret identity and government job, and everything's supposed to be roses.

They clearly wanted a scenario where the Trinity is at odds, but no one is completely right or wrong. The problem is, in execution, it wound up a situation where Diana comes across in the right, while Batman and Superman (mostly Batman) are total dickheads to her.
Which wouldn't be an issue if the pay-off was Clark and Bruce apologizing to her or accepting that, although they don't agree with her decision to kill Max, they shouldn't have treated her like that.

But no.
Either because he's a mediocre writer, or in an effort to make Diana lose the moral high ground (or both), Johns turns her into angry stab-woman, and then the story pivots awkwardly to the "Diana isn't human" bollocks so that she, Clark and Bruce can just smile and forget about the whole thing.

Nowadays, the unfortunate legacy of Max Lord is that he's now the "proof" that Diana is a kill-crazy, bloodthirsty WARRIOR who murders her opponents without hesitation. Now, whenever some nitwit--who's never read a Wonder Woman comic in his life but insists he knows how she's supposed to be--goes off on how Diana is "actually" a hardcore, no mercy, "badass," it's those panels of her snapping Max's neck and/or the infamous "When I deal with them, I deal with them."

That, and we also have to pretend Max is one of Wonder Woman's rogues now. Because there's no other reason he would be one of the villains of Wonder Woman 1984, and I cannot believe Patty Jenkins would've thought of that on her own.
Thanks, Geoff. Never miss an opportunity to screw Wonder Woman over, do you?

Also, and I've banged on about this before, but the whole Max Lord-Brother Eye-Infinite Crisis saga really soured my ability to believe Bruce respects or even genuinely cares about Diana. Her life fell apart, and it really was all his fault. And rather than own up to it or at least apologize, he tells her she's not human so that he can "fix" her with a secret identity and job she never asked for.
Great, Bruce...you not only scum-bagged your so-called good friend, now you're gaslighting her into thinking she was the problem. Clark treated Diana poorly, too, but it was at least implied he felt bad about it.
Combined with Tower of Babel and The Hiketeia...I'm sorry, but Bruce is a terrible friend and an *******.


So, yeah...the act itself doesn't bother me. I rather liked the immediate aftermath of it--as it was written by Greg Rucka. But then Geoff Johns made a big mess of it, leaving a lasting stain we have to endure to this day.

In the grand scheme, they should've just stuck to Rucka's original pitch.

[Dr. Poison]

It certainly wasn't her best moment but I realize that the stakes were high with Lord controlling Superman at the time. That being said, I think there are several other instances that were just as bad if not worse:


1.) Wonder Woman crunching Orion's junk in the New 52.

2.) Wonder Woman killing Ares instead of the First Born in the New 52.

3.) Wonder Woman working at Taco Whiz. If that wasn't character assassination, I don't know what is.

[Gaius]

3.) Wonder Woman working at Taco Whiz. If that wasn't character assassination, I don't know what is.

Comedy that didn't land with you. I read through that in a recent trade collecting Loebs stuff, it's pretty clearly tongue-in-cheek.

[marhawkman]

The moment itself....I'm here for it.

I think she did the right thing but was treated horribly for it by her peers which wasn't surprising since they rather see more people die before anything happens to an enemy.

Yeah the initial fallout made sense, the context.. a bit... railroady, but decent.

It was the way it got used after the actual story that was dumb. Especially the Bat-Lunatic.

[Agent Z]

The fallout of this shows the clear double standard DC has when it comes to their characters. Even if you believe that Diana killing Max was as bad as Bruce creating Brother Eye and Superman covering up the League's mindwiping, Diana was the only one whose transgression was repeatedly thrown in her face beyond this arc. Bruce and Clark's screw ups were pretty much forgotten after Infinite Crisis. It's like DC knew turning Max evil was controversial but rather than admit they'd made a mistake, tried to make audiences hate Diana for killing Max.

[Agent Z]

It certainly wasn't her best moment but I realize that the stakes were high with Lord controlling Superman at the time. That being said, I think there are several other instances that were just as bad if not worse:


1.) Wonder Woman crunching Orion's junk in the New 52.

The guy who had been harassing her throughout the book and even after this moment still kept doing it.

2.) Wonder Woman killing Ares instead of the First Born in the New 52.

She tried to either kill the First Born or, failing that, kill both of them. The main goal was to keep First Born from getting Ares's war god powers, which she succeeded.

3.) Wonder Woman working at Taco Whiz. If that wasn't character assassination, I don't know what is.

You're kidding, right?

[Dr. Poison]

The guy who had been harassing her throughout the book and even after this moment still kept doing it.



She tried to either kill the First Born or, failing that, kill both of them. The main goal was to keep First Born from getting Ares's war god powers, which she succeeded.



You're kidding, right?

1.) Two wrongs don't make a right and the fact that Orion kept harassing her even after the junk-crunch proves how ineffective it was.

2.) I saw more effort from Diana in killing Ares than the First Born. Why didn't she stab him through the heart, head, or throat instead of Ares?

3.) Sure, it was a gag but it still came across as silly and very out of character.


I do agree with you thought about Diana's killing of Lord hanging around much longer than the stench of Batman creating Brother Eye or Superman covering up the JLA's mind-wiping. Hopefully this has been done away with post-Rebirth/Death Metal/Dark Crisis and Lord was always just an opportunist but not all out evil.

[Agent Z]

1.) Two wrongs don't make a right and the fact that Orion kept harassing her even after the junk-crunch proves how ineffective it was.

What else did you want her to do? She'd tried telling him to stop and it didn't work. You seem more upset with Diana than the guy who was harassing her.

2.) I saw more effort from Diana in killing Ares than the First Born. Why didn't she stab him through the heart, head, or throat instead of Ares?

We're talking about a villain who ragdolled Orion, Diana and Ares, survived getting stabbed through the abdomen like it was nothing and later survived being ground zero when Apollo blew himself up.

3.) Sure, it was a gag but it still came across as silly and very out of character.

What was out of character? She didn't have money and needed a job. This doesn't even make the 100 weirdest things DC has made Diana do.

[HestiasHearth]

Worst thing to ever happen to the character.

Even more than Daddy Zeus.

- Done entirely for Superman’s and Batman’s benefit. That “friendship” can jump in a well for all I care.
- Ruined one of WW’s great runs and derailed the character in main comics until Rebirth.
- Saddled her with character no one cared about since the 80s as some “great WW villain”
- Pretty much solidified WW being “the one who does what needs to be done/”slay Queen”. Pseudo-mature rubbish.

I refuse to even partake in a “was she right?” debate. It was a poorly written series of contrivances so DC could get their stupid “broken Trinity” concept for that event no one cares about anymore. Had no actual proper buildup to it and like the rest of WW in Infinite Crisis, it only makes sense if that’s the only time in your life you’ve ever read WW.

Bravo.
Concur with this 100 %

[Gaius]

The fallout of this shows the clear double standard DC has when it comes to their characters. Even if you believe that Diana killing Max was as bad as Bruce creating Brother Eye and Superman covering up the League's mindwiping, Diana was the only one whose transgression was repeatedly thrown in her face beyond this arc. Bruce and Clark's screw ups were pretty much forgotten after Infinite Crisis. It's like DC knew turning Max evil was controversial but rather than admit they'd made a mistake, tried to make audiences hate Diana for killing Max.

Yeah, it's kind of irrelevant what one takes on this position given Infinite Crisis (and so DC) taking the position she was wrong and Johns writing her to admit she was wrong in the story.

Still waiting for the Caped Crusader to make up for all those Amazons he got killed.