Thoughts on Wonder Woman killing Maxwell Lord

[HsssH]

I find it weird that Didio allowed nuance in WW book and at the same time Johns was allowed to go in opposite direction. Didio also had nothing to do with the movie so I'd guess that it is mostly Johns pushing that plot point?

[Alan2099]

Oh, yeah, DC comics totally uses Hollywood "scary face" logic for showing off whether a character is good or evil. Max... didn't have that. he looked like an ordinary guy.

So, him as the big-bad in a story broke with the basic tropes of the medium, and made people as real questions about morality, in a stage that uses ersatz imitation morality.

On top of that, before this story Max WAS a good guy. He might have started out shady, but he had his big redemption arc and became one of the good guys. Then they just threw that all away to use him as a bad guy because ... I don't know. Because they thought he name sounded like a badguy?

It would have been a lot easier to accept WW taking out Generic Senator Evilman than it was to take out a guy that used to Bwahaha with the Justice League.

[marhawkman]

On top of that, before this story Max WAS a good guy. He might have started out shady, but he had his big redemption arc and became one of the good guys. Then they just threw that all away to use him as a bad guy because ... I don't know. Because they thought he name sounded like a badguy?

It would have been a lot easier to accept WW taking out Generic Senator Evilman than it was to take out a guy that used to Bwahaha with the Justice League.

Well, the story actually played on that. Blue Beetle was shocked and appalled to find out it was Max who was being evil... but it kinda.... didn't really have an explanation. The most reasonable explanation? Well, the idea would seemingly be that he was just... playing at being a good guy?

Does that actually make sense in-universe though? Hmmm.... I've seen arguments for both yes and no, and... hard to say definitely which is "right".

[alanyoung909]

The Snyderverse has not been a thing for the majority of the DCEU's existence, so that excuse doesn't work. Snyder didn't direct Black Adam and frankly it's failure can't be blamed on being connected to him when no one even knew Cavill was making an appearance. WW1984 got a bad reception from people who didn't like Snyder's work.

Exactly.
The Snyderverse literally just consists of Man of Steel, Batman v Superman, Wonder Woman and Zack Snyder's Justice League (as well as the unreleased David Ayer's Suicide Squad). The Snyderverse came to an end in 2021 with the release of ZSJL.

WW84 doesn't exist in the Snyderverse (it literally can't, the events contradict the events already established in the Snyderverse). It was an attempt by Patty Jenkins and Geoff Johns to start a new continuity that adhered to their (misguided) 'hope and optimism' ethos. Jenkins and Johns are 100% responsible for anything positive and anything negative that movie did.

I'm not certain what you think I'm excusing. Man of Steel was released in 2013 and Snyder's Justice League was released in 2021 and the DCEU, as is, is seemingly going to end in 2023. That seems like the majority of the DCEU's existence to me. Also, I never said Snyder directed Black Adam. I said it was an extension of the Snyderverse, which it is. Whether Cavill was in it or not, Waller and the woman from Peacemaker were in it, which are also extensions from the Snyderverse.

I believe the point Agent Z is making is that the Snyderverse is not synonymous with the DCEU, which is what you're really referring to.
Peacemaker, Black Adam and WW84 don't exist in the Snyderverse. They do in the DCEU, which is (supposedly) coming to an end at the end of this year.

[Agent Z]

Well, the story actually played on that. Blue Beetle was shocked and appalled to find out it was Max who was being evil... but it kinda.... didn't really have an explanation. The most reasonable explanation? Well, the idea would seemingly be that he was just... playing at being a good guy?

Does that actually make sense in-universe though? Hmmm.... I've seen arguments for both yes and no, and... hard to say definitely which is "right".

Their explanation was that he saw superheroes as a potential threat and tried to control or destroy them.

Granted, this just made Max look like a hypocrite given what he did.

[Agent Z]

On top of that, before this story Max WAS a good guy. He might have started out shady, but he had his big redemption arc and became one of the good guys. Then they just threw that all away to use him as a bad guy because ... I don't know. Because they thought he name sounded like a badguy?

It would have been a lot easier to accept WW taking out Generic Senator Evilman than it was to take out a guy that used to Bwahaha with the Justice League.

Rucka's original idea was to have it be someone else and Superman and Batman would support her. The story got hijacked to tie into Infinite Crisis.

[PopQuezy]

Exactly.
The Snyderverse literally just consists of Man of Steel, Batman v Superman, Wonder Woman and Zack Snyder's Justice League (as well as the unreleased David Ayer's Suicide Squad). The Snyderverse came to an end in 2021 with the release of ZSJL.

WW84 doesn't exist in the Snyderverse (it literally can't, the events contradict the events already established in the Snyderverse). It was an attempt by Patty Jenkins and Geoff Johns to start a new continuity that adhered to their (misguided) 'hope and optimism' ethos. Jenkins and Johns are 100% responsible for anything positive and anything negative that movie did.



I believe the point Agent Z is making is that the Snyderverse is not synonymous with the DCEU, which is what you're really referring to.
Peacemaker, Black Adam and WW84 don't exist in the Snyderverse. They do in the DCEU, which is (supposedly) coming to an end at the end of this year.

I didn't say it was. I said they were extensions, which they are. Also, my original point and my follow-up point were about the idea that WW84 somehow singlehandedly ended a cinematic universe. It did not. There were several factors, including the rejection of the Snyderverse among other factors, that seemingly ended that universe.

[marhawkman]

Their explanation was that he saw superheroes as a potential threat and tried to control or destroy them.

Granted, this just made Max look like a hypocrite given what he did.

Yeah, but it's a paper thin idea of an explanation of an explanation... and not a full explanation. In what way does he feel is actions are making things better? does he actually think the world would be a better place with no JL?

[king81992]

Wonder Woman did nothing wrong.

[gwhh]

WW told SM. In one of her more recent comics. She has less enemies than Superman for a reason. Anyone remember which comic that was in? I think she told him this on the watchtower.

[Zahina]

WW told SM. In one of her more recent comics. She has less enemies than Superman for a reason. Anyone remember which comic that was in? I think she told him this on the watchtower.

New 52 series Justice League: Trinity War.

[Guy_McNichts]

Only some of the worst writing for Diana:

[DisneyBoy]

See, I ignored the art and thought the rest of that thought was "...because I help to heal them!"

...but then I looked at her face and realized yeah, not so much.

[Gaius]

See, I ignored the art and thought the rest of that thought was "...because I help to heal them!"

...but then I looked at her face and realized yeah, not so much.

Yeah, I've seen some give very generous interpretations of that scene that try to stretch it to say "She means reform them" but lol, yeah right definitely not the intent from that creative team during that general era of WW.

[Stanlos]

Remind me--how is Max alive as opposed to dead?