When was it the least fun to be a Spider-Man fan?

[Alex_Of_X]

Eh, it’s not that uncommon amongst old-school fans. I actually like JMS’s run (well… some of it*) a lot more now than I did at the time it was coming out. The magical totem stuff bored me, and the casual continuity errors (such as Midtown High actually being in Manhattan) bothered me, and lastly I thought the dialogue was often too overwrought or pretentious (example, Peter about Aunt May: ““there isn’t a sonar in existence that can sound out the depth of her compassion”). But now I can look past those flaws and actually enjoy the first Morlun storyline and other books such as Digger, Carlyle, the issues with MJ and Doom at the airport, Back in Black, etc, with a lot more fondness and enjoyment.

*- that said, I still only enjoy the beginning (when he was paired with JRJr) and end of the run (when he was with Garney during Civil War and Back in Black). The middle stretch where Deodato is on pencils is coincidentally JMS’s worst writing with duds like Sins Past, the Molten Man rip-off arc, the dull Avengers stuff, etc. I still don’t bother with them.

I'm with you on loving the JMS\JRJR stretch. Deodato...I'll honestly take him over Garney. Imho Garney's pencils on Civil War and Black in Black are middling. I think he's trying to go for an in-between of JRJR and Deodato, and it ends up looking like Adam Kubert on an off day. Garney's much crisper now, on Daredevil and Thor.

Also Back in Black feels off to me? I feel like JMS is going for badassery aka the Crow, but lacking distinct visuals, it's just a lot of dollar store Jason Bourne followed by a bloody jail beatdown. Spidey beats up the Kingpin, but it's neither cool-looking, nor really heroic, since Fisk still got what he wanted

[HypnoHustler]

I'm with you on loving the JMS\JRJR stretch. Deodato...I'll honestly take him over Garney. Imho Garney's pencils on Civil War and Black in Black are middling. I think he's trying to go for an in-between of JRJR and Deodato, and it ends up looking like Adam Kubert on an off day. Garney's much crisper now, on Daredevil and Thor.

Also Back in Black feels off to me? I feel like JMS is going for badassery aka the Crow, but lacking distinct visuals, it's just a lot of dollar store Jason Bourne followed by a bloody jail beatdown. Spidey beats up the Kingpin, but it's neither cool-looking, nor really heroic, since Fisk still got what he wanted

I mean, I think that’s kinda the point? It was a pyrrhic victory for Peter. He could beat up or even kill Kingpin, but it wouldn’t bring back Aunt May who was dying from that gunshot at the time. I get your other points though, and this was when the books started associating the black costume with Peter being moody or dark, which was actually never the case beforehand. That always struck me as a bit of silly revisionism, which was a bit of a constant problem under JMS. Can’t agree about dumping on Garney though. He’s not my favorite but I’ve had a soft spot for him since he collaborated on Captain America with Mark Waid in the 90s. Just a classic run.

[Alex_Of_X]

I mean, I think that’s kinda the point? It was a pyrrhic victory for Peter. He could beat up or even kill Kingpin, but it wouldn’t bring back Aunt May who was dying from that gunshot at the time. I get your other points though, and this was when the books started associating the black costume with Peter being moody or dark, which was actually never the case beforehand. That always struck me as a bit of silly revisionism, which was a bit of a constant problem under JMS. Can’t agree about dumping on Garney though. He’s not my favorite but I’ve had a soft spot for him since he collaborated on Captain America with Mark Waid in the 90s. Just a classic run.

I gotta get to that Cap run. Months ago I started reading Gruenwald's and stalled out.

Re: the revisionism. It's there for sure, and I think it's much more digestible to a newer reader than an old hat. "Gwen's secret babies" followed by "Peter's long lost school pal" is a whole lot to digest all at once.

I think it's why I'm such a fan of his Thor. It was my first ever Thor book, and unlatched from continuity, I was free to just bask in the story and visuals. A book still to near and dear to my heart

[Dr. Skeleton]

Clone Saga and beyond. Marvel was already king of the hill in the industry, but nooooo, it wasn't enough and decided to mess with their characters for money's sake. The issue in which they had us believe that the Spidey we've been reading since 1975 was a clone and Ben Reilly was the real one long thought dead was the real deal....and then Peter strikes MJ. That was the death of my love for Spider-Man. And although I did watch the first three Spidey movies, part 3 was a reminder why I stopped loving Spidey. Seems Marvel gets a real kick messing with him every chance they get and now it seems the marriage will never get restored. They won't ever get another penny from me, for damn sure.

[exile001]

I gotta get to that Cap run. Months ago I started reading Gruenwald's and stalled out.

There is some fantastic stuff, but the guy wrote it month in month out for like a decade and there's a lot of miss in there.

Still, for its time I think it was a hell of a fete but, as with David's Hulk, I think a lot of the best stuff has its own collections.

[Thorson-98]

As far as comics go, RIGHT NOW, this run is definitely up there as one of the worst portrayals of the character.

[NC_Yankee]

As far as comics go, RIGHT NOW, this run is definitely up there as one of the worst portrayals of the character.

I agree 100%. This run is even worse then Silk ( which I hated with a passion). Why? It is went on longer.

[twobit]

I truly thought I would ever dislike Spider-Man and his world…I do now…I can’t stand the butchering of all the characters…especially MJ and Peter…I hated OMD and the aftermath, but now I really dislike everything about the book…and that makes me sad…

[Obeythemoderators]

Late 00's all the hatred towards the symbiotes following Spider-Man 3 and how the information that the character of Venom was forced on Raimi made people view Venom and Carnage as a pre millennial fad that needed to die.

Although Spider-Man 3 also gave some people the attitude that Sam Raimi's trilogy was never good, and people calling Tobey's portrayal of Spider-Man ''gay'' was even worse.

I still like Spider-Man 3 but said movies effect on the fanbase was not good.

[vhm74]

As far as comics go, RIGHT NOW, this run is definitely up there as one of the worst portrayals of the character.

My thoughts exactly. We've been used to low standards after OMD, but Well's run is just on another level

[Venomsaurus]

As far as comics go, RIGHT NOW, this run is definitely up there as one of the worst portrayals of the character.

Yeah right now for sure. Movies and games are nice but the main series has never been lower.

[Garlador]

My thoughts exactly. We've been used to low standards after OMD, but Well's run is just on another level

I still think OMD is the “lowest point” of Spider-Man history, but I’ve said the current run is the longest run of lows.

And I also think the current run is just a frustrating continuation of the same flawed ideology that created OMD; keep Peter and MJ apart through supernatural means, insist Peter has to lose and be miserable with no big lesson to learn and grow from because he’s not allowed to actually grow, write characters wildly out of character to fit the story, dangle another dead/dying woman over him for more guilt even though it gets magically fixed in a few months, make it so Mary Jane is the “villain” and one causing the relationship breakdown, etc…


You can draw a straight line from OMD to Dead Languages. It’s the same stupid philosophy driving it.

[godisawesome]

Since I usually consider multi-media to matter a bit more for big name heroes, I’d say the period between the cancellation of Spectacular Spider-Man and Captain America: Civil War, with a handful of mildly interesting bright spots that I liked in Amazing Spider-Man 2 (yes, I know) and Agent Venom. None of the cartoons released since Spectacular have really had enough going on to interest me; I won’t call them bad shows, but they definitely fall into the “good enough for newbies, not up to par for veterans” category of a lot of Marvel cartoons. I had no reason to check out the comics at all outside of Flash getting a genuinely interesting take on the Venom symbiote, as OMD was still undercutting everything, and film-wise, Amazing Spider-Man 1 was very bland and boring.

I’m a big believer that MCU Spider-Man is actually the best onscreen version for a Millenial fan like myself, even if the others are no slouch; Raimi-verse Peter is still stuck in a melodramatic and Boomer-nostalgic 60’s interpretation as a character, and while Garfield is the only one to hit the smart alec adult version so far, his films were too cluttered and obsessed with his parents. “Iron Man Jr.” poses exactly zero issues to me because his films still went out of their way to give him a clearer, more modern character arc in each, gave him villains all on par with Raimi’s best, and avoided painfully stupid melodrama in exchange for sweet, awkward teenage experiences.

[exile001]

I’m a big believer that MCU Spider-Man is actually the best onscreen version for a Millenial fan like myself, even if the others are no slouch; Raimi-verse Peter is still stuck in a melodramatic and Boomer-nostalgic 60’s interpretation as a character, and while Garfield is the only one to hit the smart alec adult version so far, his films were too cluttered and obsessed with his parents. “Iron Man Jr.” poses exactly zero issues to me because his films still went out of their way to give him a clearer, more modern character arc in each, gave him villains all on par with Raimi’s best, and avoided painfully stupid melodrama in exchange for sweet, awkward teenage experiences.

With all this, I will say that No Way Home did a phenomenal job of bringing all of the Spider-Man movie fans together in a film any previous generation can enjoy and left us with perhaps the best version. I cannot wait for the next film.

Even though I enjoyed the films, I really disliked the MCU version of Spidey as I felt it was too removed from the comics, but the films were guiding him to become Spider-Man rather than pervious versions when he's largely there from the mid-point of the first film. In MCU you actually see, for want of a better term, Spider-Boy become Spider-Man.

I hope Marvel realises soon this is the guy that needs to be front and centre going forward, and chucks as much money at Holland as it takes to keep him.

[Spider-Tiger]

I've personally never been a tremendous fan of the MCU interpretation myself until NWH. The first two felt far too removed from the source material and a bit disjointed when taken together, but after NWH I am also excited to see where the series goes. For me, the first two Sam Raimi films are still peak live action Spider-man (even though they're not without flaws.) Narratively, Raimi had a firm grasp on the core themes of the comics. Stylistically, they're perhaps more of an acquired taste to a contemporary audience with the degree of camp and melodrama, but I prefer that over the blandness of the MCU features.