Sales Discussion: Batman, Bat- Family and Related Titles

[Aahz]

Only thing I think might work is an actual Bat-Family book again, like Tynions 'Tec run, but once again it would have to include Batman and feature him prominently.

I think somewhere higher up there needs to be someone who comes up with concept for what the roles/niches/strength of the different characters are, keeps the writers from throwing other characters under the buss to push their favourite and keeps the continuity straight.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

I think somewhere higher up there needs to be someone who comes up with concept for what the roles/niches/strength of the different characters are, keeps the writers from throwing other characters under the buss to push their favourite and keeps the continuity straight.

That sounds like something a group editor should be doing and not whatever Abernathy did.

[Bat-Meal]

I think somewhere higher up there needs to be someone who comes up with concept for what the roles/niches/strength of the different characters are, keeps the writers from throwing other characters under the buss to push their favourite and keeps the continuity straight.

Trouble is, of course, the Family was recently disbanded with the fiasco that was Gotham War. Dick and Cass have ongoings, Babs too if you don't mind her being a support in Dick's book. Damian is with Bruce.

But pretty much everyone else who does have a book at the moment (or upcoming book) are in limited series. As for the rest, well, it's Limbo for now (at least Bette has company).

[Aahz]

That sounds like something a group editor should be doing and not whatever Abernathy did.

Or the ones before him.

[Aahz]

Trouble is, of course, the Family was recently disbanded with the fiasco that was Gotham War. Dick and Cass have ongoings, Babs too if you don't mind her being a support in Dick's book. Damian is with Bruce.

But pretty much everyone else who does have a book at the moment (or upcoming book) are in limited series. As for the rest, well, it's Limbo for now (at least Bette has company).

Yeah but unless they come up with good concepts of what to do with the characters a batfamily book is also not going to last all that long. And I the end of the day such a book should optimally serve to set up solo books for at least some of the charcters again, wich is something they didn't do all that well with Tynions Tec.

[Bat-Meal]

Yeah but unless they come up with good concepts of what to do with the characters a batfamily book is also not going to last all that long. And I the end of the day such a book should optimally serve to set up solo books for at least some of the charcters again, wich is something they didn't do all that well with Tynions Tec.

Tynion's 'Tec had partial success. He was only really interested in Tim and Kate. I mean, the other characters had a touch of spotlight here and there but it was token and not compelling when it did happen. Tynion did well enough with Kate to launch a second Batwoman solo (no such luck for Tim). Unfortunately, Bennett managed to make Kate's solo boring IMHO, and so it didn't last.

Tynion reverted Tim to a sidekick role though, and damaged Kate's father as a character IMHO. Losing the previous family relationships was part of the reason Kate's solo didn't work IMHO.

[Aahz]

That's what I mean, Kate's solo was cancled pretty quickly and what ever plans Tynion had for Tim seem to have been scrapped to put him in Bandis Young Justice. And having Tim "dead" and Steph leaving the team that early in the series was also a big mistake, having those three as a team as the focus of the series would have helpt imo both the sales of the run and the characters.

If they do something like that again they need a better direction for the characters they spinn out of it.

[Godlike13]

I think the elephant in the room is the Bat-office is struggling to get anyone to sell that's not Bruce, Dick, or surprisingly Poison Ivy.

Damian was doing fine until they decided to bring back the Worlds Greatest Robin. And who knows what they're doing with the Batgirls. The thing is they don't need to be trying to sell them all. At least not like they are. They spread the resources too thin and oversaturate the market. The need to wait for the right opportunities rather then try to force it like they just did with Tim.

[Aahz]

Damian was doing fine until they decided to bring back the Worlds Greatest Robin.

This idea that they can't give both Damian and Tim a book at the same time seems anyway strange.

Especally if the the book titles like "Tim Drake: Robin" that make it pretty clear what character is in that book (apart from the fact they should have come up with an identity other than Robin for Tim about a decade ago...).

The thing is they don't need to be trying to sell them all. At least not like they are. They spread the resources too thin and oversaturate the market.

There is imo a market for more of them than they are able to sell at the moment, just not with the directions and the creative teams they are giving to the characters.

[exile001]

I find it strange that they don't utilise miniseries for the secondary characters.

Were I DC with a Bat-fam is as big as it currently is, I'd always have a bi-weekly miniseries running. Three months for a 6 issue Steph miniseries and when that ends three months for a Duke miniseries, then Huntress, then Tim, then Azrael, then Babs, and so on. Give them separate titles, so every few months there a new #1 and keep it is clear they're separate series with no previous continuity really needed.

[Godlike13]

This idea that they can't give both Damian and Tim a book at the same time seems anyway strange.

Especally if the the book titles like "Tim Drake: Robin" that make it pretty clear what character is in that book (apart from the fact they should have come up with an identity other than Robin for Tim about a decade ago...).

There is imo a market for more of them than they are able to sell at the moment, just not with the directions and the creative teams they are giving to the characters.

At this point we have to consider there might not be a market for all of them. At least not in solo capacities. And they could do two Robin books with different Robins, but its just not beneficial to the Robin brand. Like i said it spreads resources thin and overstates the market. It also potentially splits the audience. If there's a market for more of them, they need to wait for it to come to them. Whats more they can't afford to give them all the top of the creative pool. So they have to gamble on newer guys. But every time they just throw something out because they have to be doing something and it doesn't perform well, it becomes all that harder for the next thing.

[Aahz]

At this point we have to consider there might not be a market for all of them.

There are defintally to many for all of them to have an ogoing solo, but I think the market should still be big enough for more core batfamily members than just Nightwing to have one.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Red Hood's mini seems to be doing better than expected since Martinbrough just posted that DC informed him that issue 0 is getting a second printing. I can't even remember the last time that a book with Jason as lead got a second print.

[marvelprince]

Huh, who said he never sold? Point has always been that he doesn’t sell anymore. Your the one moving the goal post by suggesting his situation 30 years ago is still relevant to his current situation. My point has always been that Tim is no longer marketable. Not that he never was marketable.

You said Tim doesn't sell. When he's the holder of the longest running Robin title. So he has sold before. What have I moved exactly? You said Tim doesn't sell, you referenced the time before and the time before that so you were clearly also meaning the past. But in the past Tim did sell, and sold for a long time.

Jason was only Robin for a hot minute, during a time where tech was quite different. But he’s saved Bruce in ways appropriate to his time. They all have. It doesn’t make Tim special. Just like being gifted knowledge doesn’t make him look like an excellent detective.

Giving all these qualifiers to say no none of them have done what Tim has done. Dick existed in the Silver Age where Batman regularly travelled through time and met aliens and he still doesn't have a feat like Tim's.

And who cares if the other Robins don’t supply Bruce with tech. Bruce already has people for that. The Robins shouldn’t be stealing and invalidating those support roles.

Stealing and invalidating support roles? What? Should Batman stop being a detective because he's making the GCPD look bad? I don't understand this argument at all. Its not about caring that Tim makes tech, its about using it to illustrate how its another time that sets him apart from the other Robin's, another trait that shows you how great a Robin he is without someone needing to come and say it. That's all. In a sea of smart people, he's still pretty smart.

Ok, so let’s say it’s up to the reader then and Seeley wasn’t just being coy. It is still just raising a question, not making a declaration.

I really don't see what difference the question mark makes. You wouldn't raise the question if Yes isn't a possibility so what's so different here? Its just marketing. Even a character outright making a statement in a book doesn't mean a thing is objective fact you know. Character's can have biases, can be wrong etc.

[marvelprince]

There is imo a market for more of them than they are able to sell at the moment, just not with the directions and the creative teams they are giving to the characters.

This is it. Especially for Batman's world there's no shortage of fans out there. There are tons of potential stories, I see no reason why a Damian book, Tim book and a Stephanie book can't all coexist. But we act like cause the last attempts failed there's no market for these characters when Batman characters are more popular than most comic characters. Maybe there just wasn't a market for those particular takes?