Sales Discussion: Batman, Bat- Family and Related Titles

[Frontier]

They just tried to make Tim Robin again and stick him with Bruce. It flopped. Its not the 90's anymore, there is more drama and story interest in Bruce and Damian's having tension then Tim being the "best" Robin Bruce gloats over.

He's never done that. If anything he doesn't want Tim anywhere near him wasting his life trying to help him again.

[Godlike13]

He's never done that. If anything he doesn't want Tim anywhere near him wasting his life trying to help him again.

He always does that, they all do. It why Tim's a paper tiger. He can't share a scene with another character with out them going on over how he's the best Robin or how smart he is, even acting like he's too good for the life is just a them gloating over him.

[Frontier]

He always does that, they all do. It why Tim's a paper tiger. He can't share a scene with another character with out them going on over how he's the best Robin or how smart he is, even acting like he's too good for the life is just a them gloating over him.

I've never seen Bruce straight up say he's the "best Robin," at least recently.

I know Taylor had Dick call him the best detective of the family but speaking of Dick this has probably been his most complimentary era in general, and I wouldn't call Dick a paper tiger.

Are we talking about him taking down Damian in Gotham War?

[Godlike13]

I've never seen Bruce straight up say he's the "best Robin," at least recently.

I know Taylor had Dick call him the best detective of the family but speaking of Dick this has probably been his most complimentary era in general, and I wouldn't call Dick a paper tiger.

Are we talking about him taking down Damian in Gotham War?

Pretty much the first thing they had Bruce do when Tim appeared again as Robin in Batman was have Bruce monologue what a good man and good Robin Tim was. The difference between Tim and Dick is Dick has actual accolades, he literally just helped to save the world. This era has also been the most Dick's been deserving of his compliments with increased responsibility. Where Tim's the "best" Robin, and the "best" detective, and the "smartest" person who does nothing that backs it up. People don't care anymore what they tell us Tim is, and Batman and Robin having interpersonal drama is creating more interest then Batman just telling readers how awesome Robin is.

[Frontier]

Pretty much the first thing they had Bruce do when Tim appeared again as Robin in Batman was have Bruce monologue what a good man and good Robin Tim was. The difference between Tim and Dick is Dick has actual accolades, he literally just helped to save the world. This era has also been the most Dick's been deserving of his compliments with increased responsibility. Where Tim's the "best" Robin, and the "best" detective, and the "smartest" person who does nothing that backs it up. People don't care anymore what they tell us Tim is, and Batman and Robin having interpersonal drama is creating more interest then Batman just telling readers how awesome Robin is.

Hasn't he done plenty to back it up in Zdarsky's run?

[Godlike13]

Like what?

[Frontier]

Like what?

The Toyman backups?

[marvelprince]

They just tried to make Tim Robin again and stick him with Bruce. It flopped. Its not the 90's anymore, there is more drama and story interest in Bruce and Damian's having tension then Tim being the "best" Robin Bruce gloats over.

I thought Tim was very well received in Chips Batman? Unless you’re referring to that awful series he had? Its failure wasn’t due to no one caring about Tim as Robin and more to do with how crap it was.

[CPSparkles]

I thought Tim was very well received in Chips Batman? Unless you’re referring to that awful series he had? Its failure wasn’t due to no one caring about Tim as Robin and more to do with how crap it was.

Tim has been well received in Chips run there has also been complaints about Chip over wanking Tim above the the others.

I get what Godlike is saying. That has always been a problem with Tim. Writers inability to have him share panel space with other without somehow tearing them down.

Come on for a while now fandome has been noting the fact that all writers seem to be able to do with Tim is tell us that he's the smartest or the best even when he's just a guest star in other people's titles.

It's not backed up. They just keep telling us.
it's nonsense and tedious.

[CPSparkles]

That target audience they were going for didn't buy the books so.......

No they didn't but DC tried. Probably should have used a different character/different Robin.
Kami Garcia's Robin managed to do exactly what they were hoping Tim Drake Robin would.

[PUGSSSS001]

They just tried to make Tim Robin again and stick him with Bruce. It flopped. Its not the 90's anymore, there is more drama and story interest in Bruce and Damian's having tension then Tim being the "best" Robin Bruce gloats over.

Tim's sexual identity became his entire characterization once they chose to make him bisexual (and I say this as a card carrying member of the LGBTetcetcetc community). The newest book failed because it was not the Tim that most people really connected with, just a bisexual dude named Tim Drake who wore a Robin costume and had a boring boyfriend. None of what made him special to his fans was in that series. Make the charcter first, the sexuality second and not the other way around. Otherwise its pandering and tokenism.

[Konja7]

Tim's sexual identity became his entire characterization once they chose to make him bisexual (and I say this as a card carrying member of the LGBTetcetcetc community). The newest book failed because it was not the Tim that most people really connected with, just a bisexual dude named Tim Drake who wore a Robin costume and had a boring boyfriend. None of what made him special to his fans was in that series. Make the charcter first, the sexuality second and not the other way around. Otherwise its pandering and tokenism.

To be fair, Tim's situation was already pretty dire even before they make him Bi. In fact, his change of sexuality was likely an attempt to attract new fans, but it failed. Young Justice (which has a lot of promotion from DC) was cancelled pretty fast.

Tim has lost a lot of popularity since New52. Not to mention that the current comics market is pretty hard. It's pretty difficult Tim could mantain a solo even with a better writer.

[Godlike13]

I thought Tim was very well received in Chips Batman? Unless you’re referring to that awful series he had? Its failure wasn’t due to no one caring about Tim as Robin and more to do with how crap it was.

If he was actually well received his comic would have at least debuted better. As that was pretty much the point in bringing him back as Robin and featuring him in Batman. Batman was the lead in. The whole idea was a flop.

Tim's sexual identity became his entire characterization once they chose to make him bisexual (and I say this as a card carrying member of the LGBTetcetcetc community). The newest book failed because it was not the Tim that most people really connected with, just a bisexual dude named Tim Drake who wore a Robin costume and had a boring boyfriend. None of what made him special to his fans was in that series. Make the charcter first, the sexuality second and not the other way around. Otherwise its pandering and tokenism.

They were trying to make him more appealing outside of just his fans because the reality is his fans aren’t around anymore in a meaningful way. He needs new fans but has no way of generating them and was only becoming increasingly less appealing to outside opportunities.

[Frontier]

I think more people were looking at the Urban Legends stories and Fitzmartin than they were Tim's use in Batman going into the new solo, that's what it was building off of anyway.

And if they were trying to make him more appealing, I think they definitely failed in that respect.

Tim has been well received in Chips run there has also been complaints about Chip over wanking Tim above the the others.

I get what Godlike is saying. That has always been a problem with Tim. Writers inability to have him share panel space with other without somehow tearing them down.

Come on for a while now fandome has been noting the fact that all writers seem to be able to do with Tim is tell us that he's the smartest or the best even when he's just a guest star in other people's titles.

It's not backed up. They just keep telling us.
it's nonsense and tedious.

I think it was that Gotham War fight between him and Damian.

[Godlike13]

I think more people were looking at the Urban Legends stories and Fitzmartin than they were Tim's use in Batman going into the new solo, that's what it was building off of anyway.

And if they were trying to make him more appealing, I think they definitely failed in that respect.

And how many eyes were even on that?