Sales Discussion: Batman, Bat- Family and Related Titles

[Godlike13]

The main Batman book is slow and isn't really making much noise. While character's like Kate and Jason were having sales struggles for a while, Jason's book was kept afloat simply because Lobdell was Harras' buddy, and even though Batgirls was fun they let the Batgirl brand slip off too much to the side since rebirth. All making Cass and Steph Batgirl again did was reaffirm that despite what was often heard they aren't really general sellers. It was worth a shot though. Batgirls really wasn't bad. Making Tim Robin again though was just a bad call. One the Robin brand will now have to try and bounce back from.

[Aahz]

I don't think that it is much of a surprise when a lot of the books (like Tim Drake Robin and Batgirls) seem to be targeted at audiences outside the direct direct market, without them making any effort to actually sell these books anywhere outside the direct market. Allow writers to constantly trash a character (like in the case of Red Hood and to a degree even Bruce) and hire in general a lot of substandard writers and artists.

Honestly the only Batman books I find currently at least somewhat enjoyable are "Batman and Robin", and "The Batman & Scooby-Doo Mysteries".

[CPSparkles]

And nobody was happy with how Jason's been written in practically anything.

Same was the case with all batman characters not called Nightwing. Cass, Damian and Tim recently have had decent writing here and there but for a really long while it was dire.

Hope 2024 is better.

[Morgoth]

In terms of Bat-Fam characters (except Bruce, of course), they're probably will be focusing on Dick and Damian, because they're the only stable sellers among the rest. And I guess Jason's future really depends on how his mini is going to work out.

Isn't Catwoman also not selling great?

It was one of the reasons why they made Gotham War in the first place. But I guess it didn't help in long term.

[ayanestar]

The main Batman book is slow and isn't really making much noise. While character's like Kate and Jason were having sales struggles for while, Jason's book was kept afloat simply because Lobdell was Harras' buddy, and even though Batgirls was fun they let the Batgirl brand slip off too much to the side since rebirth. All making Cass and Steph Batgirl again did was reaffirm that despite what was often heard they aren't really general sellers. It was worth a shot though. Batgirls really wasn't bad. Making Tim Robin again though was just a bad call. One the Robin brand will now have to try and bounce back from.

Tim is clinging to the Robin brand as if his life depends on it. I would have never believed he would be in such a situation a few years ago. It will be interesting to see if 2024 will change anything for him. Anyway, I think Batgirls was a good attempt, but maybe a book with Cass, Steph and Tim will do better. These three used to be well-liked as a trio.

[Aahz]

In terms of Bat-Fam characters (except Bruce, of course), they're probably will be focusing on Dick and Damian, because they're the only stable sellers among the rest.

Based on how they mishandled the others, and what crappy writers they put on their books it's not really a surprise they don't sell.

And I guess Jason's future really depends on how his mini is going to work out.

I don't think the story or the writer are high profile enough to really generate interest, and if they keep pushing the "he is Batman's greatest failure"/"he will never be as good as Dick Grayson" thing and writing like an incompetent idiot in the more prominent Batman books, any writer on Jason's book is anyway facing an uphill battle.

[Aahz]

Same was the case with all batman characters not called Nightwing. Cass, Damian and Tim recently have had decent writing here and there but for a really long while it was dire.

But I think with Jason it was imo particularly bad.

I imo he had after the ending of RHatO only two stories where he was decently written (Legends of Gotham and the story in the Halloween Anthology) and both were really low profile.

[Morgoth]

Speaking of long-term future, Bat-Fam characters future really depends on who exactly Gunn chose to be in DCU.

I don't think the story or the writer are high profile enough to really generate interest, and if they keep pushing the "he is Batman's greatest failure"/"he will never be as good as Dick Grayson" thing and writing like an incompetent idiot in the more prominent Batman books, any writer on Jason's book is anyway facing an uphill battle.

The problem is, DC refuses to see Jason any other way, it's like Marvel refuses to stop making Spider-Man an infantile loser, who can't figure out his own life and insists it's the only right path.
This whole thing about him being ''Batman's greatest failure'' is something that defines him from their perspective, and they refuse to let this go. Just like they refuse to let Tim move on from Robin's mantle and his ''Batman always needs Robin'' motto.

Tim is clinging to the Robin brand as if his life depends on it.h

I guess that's what they believe - they're afraid, that moving on from Robin brand will be the end for him and he won't recover from that.

[Aahz]

The problem is, DC refuses to see Jason any other way, it's like Marvel refuses to stop making Spider-Man an infantile loser, who can't figure out his own life and insists it's the only right path.

I think they were on a decent path in RHatO, but I recent years the writers have really started to double down on constantly pushing how amazing Dick, Tim, Damian and the others are, and that Jason sucks.

[Godlike13]

Tim is clinging to the Robin brand as if his life depends on it. I would have never believed he would be in such a situation a few years ago. It will be interesting to see if 2024 will change anything for him. Anyway, I think Batgirls was a good attempt, but maybe a book with Cass, Steph and Tim will do better. These three used to be well-liked as a trio.

I know how this sounds, but ive been saying it for years this is where Tim was trending. I think they should maybe just try Cass solo. See if they can find something that works, and not just replay the hits, but actually try to cultivate a new generation of audience for her. If that doesn't work out let Batgirl rest until they see how the landscape turns out, and then see where the opportunity is. The harsh reality they don't need to have something for all of them all the time. Resources aren't limitless. Spend too much on trying to get everyone to work and next thing you find yourself taking for granted the things are working. We just saw this with Tim and Damian. In trying to make Tim work again, they dug a hole for Damian who was working better.

I think they were on a decent path in RHatO, but I recent years the writers have really started to double down on constantly pushing how amazing Dick, Tim, Damian and the others are, and that Jason sucks.

RHatO would have been canceled under any other creator. It turned into little more then a vehicle for Lobdell. They seem to be trying to lean a bit back into Red Hood back as a tragic figure, but i wouldn't say they have been pushing that Jason sucks.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Tim is clinging to the Robin brand as if his life depends on it. I would have never believed he would be in such a situation a few years ago. It will be interesting to see if 2024 will change anything for him. Anyway, I think Batgirls was a good attempt, but maybe a book with Cass, Steph and Tim will do better. These three used to be well-liked as a trio.

I would be shocked if DC puts Tim and Stephanie together in a book.......but honestly they need to keep her away from him unless they have a good writer.

[Aahz]

RHatO would have been canceled under any other creator. It turned into little more then a vehicle for Lobdell.

In RHatO Jason had at least his own thing with the all caste, and was able to get things done on his own. Lately he seems is mostly a punching back and a damsel in distress. At least I would gladly take Lobdell back over Rosenberg.

They seem to be trying to lean a bit back into Red Hood back as a tragic figure, but i wouldn't say they have been pushing that Jason sucks.

I might have exaggerated a bit, but not by much.

[Felipe Silveira]

There's no point trying to reach new audiences and staying stuck in comic shops.
DC, and Marvel, should at least try to do the same as Mangas do in Japan.
Publish a weekly magazine, with cheap paper and sold wherever possible with the sole intention of placing all publications in the reader's hands.
The way it is published today has no future, it is very expensive to keep up with everything.

[Frontier]

The main Batman book is slow and isn't really making much noise. While character's like Kate and Jason were having sales struggles for a while, Jason's book was kept afloat simply because Lobdell was Harras' buddy, and even though Batgirls was fun they let the Batgirl brand slip off too much to the side since rebirth. All making Cass and Steph Batgirl again did was reaffirm that despite what was often heard they aren't really general sellers. It was worth a shot though. Batgirls really wasn't bad. Making Tim Robin again though was just a bad call. One the Robin brand will now have to try and bounce back from.

I think Tim's problem was mostly execution.

I know how this sounds, but ive been saying it for years this is where Tim was trending. I think they should maybe just try Cass solo. See if they can find something that works, and not just replay the hits, but actually try to cultivate a new generation of audience for her. If that doesn't work out let Batgirl rest until they see how the landscape turns out, and then see where the opportunity is. The harsh reality they don't need to have something for all of them all the time. Resources aren't limitless. Spend too much on trying to get everyone to work and next thing you find yourself taking for granted the things are working. We just saw this with Tim and Damian. In trying to make Tim work again, they dug a hole for Damian who was working better.

A Cass Batgirl solo seems more likely to me at this point than Babs headlining a solo again. They seem more comfortable with her as Oracle now or just having her do Oracle stuff even as Batgirl while Cass gets more of a "Batgirl" push, even more than Steph.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

We know by what Rosenberg has said that DC is aware of Jason's popularity and consider him a character that sells books so the way they keep fumbling the bag with him is just mind-boggling.