X-Men Monday #187 – Tini Howard Talks ‘Betsy Braddock: Captain Britain’

[JB]

I think this plays along the line that the Summers family was supposed to be the main focus of Hickman's X-Men, but quickly we found out that this "family" book consisted of just really Cyclops, Cable, and Jean with cameos from Rachel (never with Jean) and Gabriel. So she was likely told she would be off the table for the first set of books, but then she was given to Leah so really not the case.

Agreed, and there may have been bigger plans for Rachel than what ended up being printed like Rogue in Inferno. I'm a sucker for "behind the scenes" info and there's always more at play than we see. Example: Tini didn't use Jubilee for Knights because she agreed to hand her over to Leah for X-Terminators. It was supposed to be released at the same time but supply chain/print delays messed that up.

And I think with the knowledge that Howard was only allowed to use subtext until the actual reveal actually makes the way they were written make a ton of more sense. If anything my only complaint was that things were a little TOO obvious with Rachel being Betsy obsessed even when her other teammates were either in danger or you know dying. Looking forward to their dynamic actually getting explored now that they’ve gotten over the hurdle of company approval!

I definitely agree regarding how Rachel sounded towards the end with Betsy, too needy. But now finding out that Howard was taking the subtextual risks while waiting for approval makes the whole situation more endearing to me.

[Krakoa]

Truly.
And I don't recall people saying that KidCable dating a Cuckoo felt forced.
Nor Kwannon and Greycrow. Nor Akihiro and Jean Marie.
Betsy & Rachel had a consistent slow build to their kiss/coupling.

To answer CGAR, I intend to purchase the individual issue hard copies at my LCS.

Akihiro/Jean-Marie really stands out here as one that had MUCH less buildup and went from 0 to 100 very quickly and no one calls forced.

I think that a valid criticism of Betsy and Rachel is that specifically in Knights of X, Rachel was as bit too secondary to Betsy (though she did have cool Askani moments), but the forced stuff always feels weird to me (and often is accompanied by thinly-veiled homophobia -- I've seen posters dismiss the Cluster relationship two sentences after saying Betsy/Rachel is forced, or talk about wanting Betsy's straight relationships back).

[justanotherclassic]

Akihiro/Jean-Marie really stands out here as one that had MUCH less buildup and went from 0 to 100 very quickly and no one calls forced.

I think that a valid criticism of Betsy and Rachel is that specifically in Knights of X, Rachel was as bit too secondary to Betsy (though she did have cool Askani moments), but the forced stuff always feels weird to me (and often is accompanied by thinly-veiled homophobia -- I've seen posters dismiss the Cluster relationship two sentences after saying Betsy/Rachel is forced, or talk about wanting Betsy's straight relationships back).

As much as I don't like the writing of the ship --- to a agree, I feel like Howard shaves the edges off of both Rachel and Betsy -- it was honestly one of the better written in terms of build-up in the Krakoa era. Which is, honestly, more of an indictment to the writing of relationships in the Krakoa era than anything. But still, they feel more natural than Doug/Bei, which were literally forced together and now are deeply in love/admiration.

[Nicoclaws]

Akihiro/Jean-Marie really stands out here as one that had MUCH less buildup and went from 0 to 100 very quickly and no one calls forced.

I think that a valid criticism of Betsy and Rachel is that specifically in Knights of X, Rachel was as bit too secondary to Betsy (though she did have cool Askani moments), but the forced stuff always feels weird to me (and often is accompanied by thinly-veiled homophobia -- I've seen posters dismiss the Cluster relationship two sentences after saying Betsy/Rachel is forced, or talk about wanting Betsy's straight relationships back).

Again, lots of people called it forced, and complained that it came out of nowhere and that 1) it changed Dakken's character, 2) it played in the trope that bisexual when good are put in "straight' relationships and 3) it seemed like fanfiction and self-insert by the writer.
I don't necessarily agree, and I totally concur that Betsychel was less forced and that critiques are often laced with queerphobia but still, let's not dismiss how much X-fans rant for anything at anytime XD

[Selene]

Akihiro/Jean-Marie really stands out here as one that had MUCH less buildup and went from 0 to 100 very quickly and no one calls forced.

I think that a valid criticism of Betsy and Rachel is that specifically in Knights of X, Rachel was as bit too secondary to Betsy (though she did have cool Askani moments), but the forced stuff always feels weird to me (and often is accompanied by thinly-veiled homophobia -- I've seen posters dismiss the Cluster relationship two sentences after saying Betsy/Rachel is forced, or talk about wanting Betsy's straight relationships back).

Would it help understanding that maybe, just maybe, everything Tini Howard does now -including this new pairing- is put under a microscope precisely because her work is riddled with out-of-character moments, terrible pacing, uneven usage of characters and fundamental ignorance of each X-Man's personalities? Without even taking into account the fact Sam Humphries portrayed Betsy as a junkie going through a second adolescence or a midlife crisis, I admit the Cluster thing did have potential, because it explored falling for a person whose mind had been displaced into a different body (which mirrors Psylocke's own life experience). Having said that, there is no way in hell an in-character Betsy would want to pursue a relationship -man or woman- with a creep that was using mind control in order to entice her.

But sure, wanting Angel/Psylocke back, one of the unique pairings that make perfect sense in the Marvel Universe, over this Rachel/Betsy-Captain Britain is a prime example of thinly-veiled homophobia. Such brilliant assessment there, Krakoa, truly!

[CGAR]

Heres the thing. I read THs Wiccan and Hulkling story. I do not have faith that she will write an interesting relationship.

But I'm ready to be proven wrong on this THIRD book.

[JB]

I can only speak for myself but I automatically cringe when I hear "not Rachel, Warren/Wisdom instead." I'm not saying it's intentional by those putting those comments forth, but I can't un-hear "no to the queer relationship, a normal one only please."
Something new is being tried with these two popular characters. So much so that it's getting minor press in mainstream media (Entertainment Weekly, Washington Post.) So TO ME, it sounds like that effort should be erased.

[Krakoa]

I can only speak for myself but I automatically cringe when I hear "not Rachel, Warren/Wisdom instead." I'm not saying it's intentional by those putting those comments forth, but I can't un-hear "no to the queer relationship, a normal one only please."
Something new is being tried with these two popular characters. So much so that it's getting minor press in mainstream media (Entertainment Weekly, Washington Post.) So TO ME, it sounds like that effort should be erased.

The Wisdom one in particular. Warren I at least get the loyalty people have to that relationship, but Wisdom is so random from like a few scenes of minor flirtation.

[JB]

The Wisdom one in particular. Warren I at least get the loyalty people have to that relationship, but Wisdom is so random from like a few scenes of minor flirtation.

Especially considering how vocal he was about his disdain for Krakoa. I like Wisdom and the counterpoint he offers, but Betsy would likely kill him.

[Selene]

Especially considering how vocal he was about his disdain for Krakoa. I like Wisdom and the counterpoint he offers, but Betsy would likely kill him.

We find ourselves in agreement here.
Capture d’écran 2023-01-19 220303.jpg

[JB]

We find ourselves in agreement here.
Capture d’écran 2023-01-19 220303.jpg

Ugh, he's such a foul pig indeed.

[Cerridwen]

Rachel dating her fellow X-Men is like a child dating her aunts and uncles.

[JB]

I like Le Fay as a villain for Betsy as she's powerful and has given the Avengers and others a hard time. She and Coven must have the people deeply under their spell for them to be cheering for the prime Fury, which an earlier version hunted down superhumans and mutants. I wouldn't be surprised if the people have been completely magically overtaken and mutants are being rounded up.

"...the most powerful witch in history is about to take the entire kingdom for herself. Britain needs true allies — but they may have to come from foreign lands…"

My first thought was the Avengers but this could also mean Krakoa. It's been said the book is focused on Britain but never said Krakoan allies wouldn't appear.

[Rift]

Regarding Ratsy, I can see why people would find it rushed. Sure, there might be bad faith actors, or people not realizing that they're setting up their hypocrisies. But if you look at what's happened so far, the couple don't have a lot of scenes together, and much of Rachel's time in Excalibur/KoX was her pining for Betsy. If you view it as the end of their romance arc, it looks like a quick rush job with not a lot of buildup.

But I don't think that was meant to be the end, but the beginning. It was about establishing Rachel's attraction to her, Rachel herself realizing her feelings, and setting up their connection. This is just the ground work of something Howard plans on developing, and the interview confirms that she plans on showing intricacies and complications as the two characters move forward. This isn't like Taylor's work on X-Men Red, when he tried to hook up Gentle with his OC despite the two not interacting or having any chemistry and that's it. It's something that we're currently watching develop.

[BobbysWorld]

Regarding Ratsy, I can see why people would find it rushed. Sure, there might be bad faith actors, or people not realizing that they're setting up their hypocrisies. But if you look at what's happened so far, the couple don't have a lot of scenes together, and much of Rachel's time in Excalibur/KoX was her pining for Betsy. If you view it as the end of their romance arc, it looks like a quick rush job with not a lot of buildup.

But I don't think that was meant to be the end, but the beginning. It was about establishing Rachel's attraction to her, Rachel herself realizing her feelings, and setting up their connection. This is just the ground work of something Howard plans on developing, and the interview confirms that she plans on showing intricacies and complications as the two characters move forward. This isn't like Taylor's work on X-Men Red, when he tried to hook up Gentle with his OC despite the two not interacting or having any chemistry and that's it. It's something that we're currently watching develop.

Me, who likes both Gentle and Trinary quite a lot, actually, but was watching that whole thing with a sort of bemused fascination: what exactly am I looking at here, what's happening, what's the takeaway. what are we going for?

Taylor: They're falling in love.

Me: Oh yeah see I did not get that impression, no.