Dark Web: X-Men #3 Review *spoilers*

[JThree]

What if Cyclops brought Maddie and Nathan to NY when Jean Grey came back. At the very least he would not have had a major scumbag moment.

That would have been interesting.
==jthree

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Why does everyone hold this against the character like she wasn't being manipulated by magical demons and going through an incredible amount of psychological trauma at the time? It doesn't excuse it but it does add context. It's very interesting which characters have their bad behavior held against them, and which skate on by unscathed. Scott abandoned his wife, Jean was hooking up with a married man (Oh no, here comes Mercury with some scans), but Maddie is the bad one.

It's because we are supposed to see Cyclops/Jean as this magically destined and rightful thing. Maddie until last week was a villain standing against the One True Pair (barf). Misogyny, reverent adherence to nostalgia, and dedication to the sanctity of the OTP kept her from moving beyond that. Let's see if this new status quo is at all protected for any significant length of time before reversion, Marvel Girl-style.

[Havok83]

Why does everyone hold this against the character like she wasn't being manipulated by magical demons and going through an incredible amount of psychological trauma at the time? It doesn't excuse it but it does add context. It's very interesting which characters have their bad behavior held against them, and which skate on by unscathed. Scott abandoned his wife, Jean was hooking up with a married man (Oh no, here comes Mercury with some scans), but Maddie is the bad one.

Jean f-cked her husband and Maddie went and f-cked Jean’s son. They even

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

Oh, Maddie, ever the victim. Folks should totally be judged on their feelings as opposed tho the acts of terrorism they're committing in real time. You'd think that nobody truly hating on her and simply wanting her to *call it even and stop acting crazy* would tip the balance or something. But nope. Mah feeelings. Great stuff, lol

[JThree]

It's because we are supposed to Cyclops/Jean as this magically destined and rightul thing. Maddie until last week was a villain standing against the One True Pair (barf). Misogyny, reverent adherence to nostalgia, and dedication to the sanctity of the OTP kept her from moving beyond that. Let's see if this new status quo is at all protected for any significant length of time before reversion, Marvel Girl-style.

I liked the old Maddie. She was better written than Jean before she turned evil. Since she turned evil, have there been any moments where we've seen the old Maddie?
==jthree

[JThree]

Maddie went and f-cked Jean’s son. They even

Okay when did this happen?
--jthree

[Arachne]

I don't think it's confirmed, but Maddie's relationship with Nate Grey in his comic was... problematic, for lack of a better word.

[EmeraldGladiator]

I am not sure that was really Maddy, but a ghost of something Nate pulled out of the air but I choose to believe that is no more the "real" Maddy than the X-Men Blue teen maddy with horns is.

[Arachne]

I don't think we ever found out if it was really Maddie or not, and it ended up being an evil Jean Grey from another reality, but that's even more messed up. I don't think it's clear when the switch from ghost Maddie to Mad Queen Jean happened, though.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I liked the old Maddie. She was better written than Jean before she turned evil. Since she turned evil, have there been any moments where we've seen the old Maddie?
==jthree

Old Maddie was trapped in the laser-eyed personality vacuum until last week when, theoretically, they opened her character up to doing something besides obsessing over an ex.

Maybe you'll see Old Maddie now, hopefully not in the same book as Jean.

[Havok83]

I am not sure that was really Maddy, but a ghost of something Nate pulled out of the air but I choose to believe that is no more the "real" Maddy than the X-Men Blue teen maddy with horns is.

It wasnt the same Maddie originally but the Krakoa era has essentially made them one and the same.

I liked the old Maddie. She was better written than Jean before she turned evil. Since she turned evil, have there been any moments where we've seen the old Maddie?
==jthree

No, as she's effectively dead and it wouldnt make sense for her to be written as she was pre-Inferno. Those revelations and real trauma she suffered changed her. That doesnt mean she needs to be evil but she can be neutral as she was in New Mutants or thriving to do better as the end of this issue implies she may be going forward

It's because we are supposed to see Cyclops/Jean as this magically destined and rightful thing. Maddie until last week was a villain standing against the One True Pair (barf). Misogyny, reverent adherence to nostalgia, and dedication to the sanctity of the OTP kept her from moving beyond that. Let's see if this new status quo is at all protected for any significant length of time before reversion, Marvel Girl-style.

I know you have a big hate for Scott/Jean but Maddie hasnt been motivated by them since Inferno. She largely left them alone in the 90s. In Sisterhood, Scott was just a means to an end for her to get a body back (Jean was already dead by then). Both were nonfactors in her return in X-men v4. They were nonfactors for her in Hellions and New Mutants and her only use for them this arc was to get Jean's memories, not bc she was trying to get in between them

[MechaJeanix]

I know I should practice what I preach about responding to those who post in bad faith, and generally I think it is best not to take the bait, but I believe when Jean and Scott were intimate in X-factor (was it around issue 25/26??) was after they believed Maddie and Nate to have died (X-factor 13-ish). Of course they were not dead, but Scott and Jean did not know this .. plus I feel like at that point Scott and Maddie were sufficiently separated (just not legally). I have every issue of X-factor with the O5 but I'm not home to check, but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. I know it annoys some, but a few of us do try to be factual and use the source material (I'm sure all the academics here can relate).

The Maddie and Nate Grey relationship was definitely wild. Some have speculated that was in part why we got the Queen Jean retcon but wouldn't that be much worse (plus we don't know when exactly Maddie was replaced). Yikes, lots of soapy drama for sure.

Plus, though we can explain away Maddie's actions (it has explanatory value that she was victimized and all the demon stuff), it shouldn't take away the consequences that she tried to kill her son. I argued this once with a certain podcaster that is a big Maddie fan. I've worked in human services and the criminal justice system for 15 years. Trust me if you try to kill your child your parental rights are going to be terminated. This includes folks who may have mental health issues or attempt to provide justification for the violence toward their kids (I do realize Maddie's situation isn't real life but I'm just saying so don't come for me).

[Chris0013]

I know I should practice what I preach about responding to those who post in bad faith, and generally I think it is best not to take the bait, but I believe when Jean and Scott were intimate in X-factor (was it around issue 25/26??) was after they believed Maddie and Nate to have died (X-factor 13-ish). Of course they were not dead, but Scott and Jean did not know this .. plus I feel like at that point Scott and Maddie were sufficiently separated (just not legally). I have every issue of X-factor with the O5 but I'm not home to check, but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. I know it annoys some, but a few of us do try to be factual and use the source material (I'm sure all the academics here can relate).

The Maddie and Nate Grey relationship was definitely wild. Some have speculated that was in part why we got the Queen Jean retcon but wouldn't that be much worse (plus we don't know when exactly Maddie was replaced). Yikes, lots of soapy drama for sure.

Plus, though we can explain away Maddie's actions (it has explanatory value that she was victimized and all the demon stuff), it shouldn't take away the consequences that she tried to kill her son. I argued this once with a certain podcaster that is a big Maddie fan. I've worked in human services and the criminal justice system for 15 years. Trust me if you try to kill your child your parental rights are going to be terminated. This includes folks who may have mental health issues or attempt to provide justification for the violence toward their kids (I do realize Maddie's situation isn't real life but I'm just saying so don't come for me).

IIRC...you're right. Scott kept NOT responding to Jean coming onto him up til she found out he was married. Then during or just after Fall of the Mutants they say Maddie on the news asking Scott to find Nathan and Maddie was believed to have died in Dallas with the X-men. That is when they finally did the hibiddy-dibiddy.

[Micabe]

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[Micabe]

It's because we are supposed to see Cyclops/Jean as this magically destined and rightful thing. Maddie until last week was a villain standing against the One True Pair (barf). Misogyny, reverent adherence to nostalgia, and dedication to the sanctity of the OTP kept her from moving beyond that. Let's see if this new status quo is at all protected for any significant length of time before reversion, Marvel Girl-style.

Are you seriously eluding to Jean (and, Scott by affiliation) being responsible for Madelyne's cruel fate? First, from Mister Sinister's cloning vats to the moment Jean sacrificed herself in the Blue Area of the Moon, Madelyne was little more than an unconscious mind that Minister Sinister planned to use and discard after she seduced Scott into getting her pregnant.

Second, when Mister Sinister's machinations hit a snag and Madelyne discovered that her likeness and childhood memories were in fact those of Jean Grey's Mister Sinister decided to '86 his test-tube creation and cut his losses to avoid being discovered. IMHO, Madelyne's full integration with her template and bodily demise at the end of Inferno should have officially been the proper end of her story but nooo, Marvel had to resurrect and burn her beyond recognition too

I find how Scott treated Maddy way more creepy. Outback Maddy and Alex got together in a turbulent time. Maddy abandoned by husband and child kidnapped. Alex believing Lorna forever lost to Malice possession. Them hooking up makes more sense than a lot of X- relationships. If Alex thought Scott loved Maddy he would have resisted more but it was obvious to everyone where Scott's heart was. Alex is the only character that truly cared for Maddy romantically. They were even married with a kid in Mutant X universe. You wanna talk creepy that's ghost Maddy and Nate Grey.

IIRC, Madelyne had already started to corrupt the X-men well before she even turned into the Goblin Queen in UX-Men #242. I'm fairly sure Maddie telepathically instigated an affair with Alex forcing him to serve as Goblin Prince to her Goblin Queen persona after she was corrupted by S'ym (and N'astirh).