Dark Web: X-Men #3 Review *spoilers*

[Triniking1234]

I realised that one of the other things that bothered me about this issue was how useless every character other than Jean was in the resolution. Cyclops, Havok, and even Magik have skin in the game and the most any of them did was act as a punchline for a joke about puppies. Cyclops was more effective and important in Immortal X-Men #10 - where he was essentially a side character - than he was in this.

With all the discussion that's going on about Jean and Maddie in this thread, I think it's clear that Duggan did not do his job properly as a writer with this crossover. Readers shouldn't be spoon-fed everything, but if there's this much confusion about things like why the main villain did what she did and how her arc was resolved, then something's gone wrong. You shouldn't have to dig back into the annals of comic book history to make a story today make sense. Sure, 40 year old continuity can enhance, but it shouldn't explain.

I'm upset that Duggan baits you by bringing up Illyana's involvement through her own Limbo adventure and handing over Limbo to Maddie in New Mutants but then she gets knocked faster than Rahne did in that bad New Mutants book and reduced to a child for kicks.

Havok and Scott are just here to resolve the dispute from the Forge vs. the Vault arc despite their connection to Maddie so I hope X-Men readers picked this up if they were interested in that minor plot point.

Can't really take the Jean/Maddie talks seriously when most of it is fan-wank.

Also idk, did Dark Web have a body count? I skimmed thru the Alpha\Spidey issues and found literary nothing.

No.

[justanotherclassic]

Havok and Scott are just here to resolve the dispute from the Forge vs. the Vault arc despite their connection to Maddie so I hope X-Men readers picked this up if they were interested in that minor plot point.

I still don't fully understand why it was necessary that Havok be in the X-Men for him to reach the conclusion that he wanted to forge his own path. That's something that could have been concluded off-panel and still had the same impact, while also freeing up an X-Men slot for a different character. And while I don't think Duggan is necessarily good at writing team books (see also Marauders), the presence on being the X-Men could have given them the chance to be elevated.

[rcaguy]

This issue got me right in my feeling, and imho redeemed the mini a tad after a meh issue #1

With the current X-Men being paragons of mutantkind at its best, I find it fitting the way they dealt with Maddie. She's treated as someone who went thru great anguish, and her recovery has been ongoing and ugly and bumpy. Going biblical on her won't set her at ease.

Cyke still licks goats forever tho lmao.

Also idk, did Dark Web have a body count? I skimmed thru the Alpha\Spidey issues and found literary nothing.

The whole issue with Maddie should've been resolved in the pages of New Mutants in a issue or two sort of like how Claremont did it with Magento and Illyana.

Absolutely no need for this trash whatsoever on any level.

[Triniking1234]

I still don't fully understand why it was necessary that Havok be in the X-Men for him to reach the conclusion that he wanted to forge his own path. That's something that could have been concluded off-panel and still had the same impact, while also freeing up an X-Men slot for a different character. And while I don't think Duggan is necessarily good at writing team books (see also Marauders), the presence on being the X-Men could have given them the chance to be elevated.

It was pointless since it just put Alex in the same position he was at the end of Hellions. Especially since right after his appointment to the team, they get dragged into Judgement Day where he does nothing then they bring up beef with Scott for no reason then more Maddie drama.

It would be like Gillen doing another story about Shaw trying to kill Kitty over in Immortal.

[Mercury]

Mercuryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. You wouldn't be contextualizing, you would be interpreting. Based on your uniquely individual perspective. I think it's realistic for Jean to have pushed for Madelyne's resurrection too, and had that been what they had gone with from the start, we wouldn't even need to be debating it.

Okay, then, let's talk about interpreting and how you and others are interpreting what Scott said in Hellions in two very limited ways:

Either we're supposed to believe that when Cyclops talks about Jean (or vice versa) we can trust him, unless he says something that contradicts Jean's perpetually generically pleasant archetypal portrayal, in which case he's lying and we're misogynistic to believe him?

Obviously, Scott's thoughts and comments on the matter in this scene can be interpreted in more ways than the two you offer above, i.e., it's not beyond the realm of possibility that he categorized Jean as one of "a lot of complications" because that's how the Council viewed her—in fact, perhaps it was even the exact word theyused—when deliberating over whether to resurrect Madelyne. It's also not unrealistic to assume Scott was simply speaking for himself. Neither of these interpretations have anything to do with how Jean feels on the matter nor do they necessarily mean or imply that he's a lying misogynist.

Also, again, I'm sorry that you have a problem with "Jean's perpetually generically pleasant archetypal portrayal." One thing you can't say, however, is that it's out of character for her. Frankly, a lot of her fans love her precisely because she is kind, empathic, altruistic, and self-sacrificing, at times, to a rather astounding degree. Trust me I know because of the literally thousands of responses I've received on Twitter regarding this specific issue and other aspects of her story. Ultimately, neither she nor these qualities should be derided or treated as if they're unrealistic or uninteresting, but now I'm veering into judging personal tastes, and I don't want to echo what others have done in this thread.

EDIT:

P.S. Had Scott said something along the lines of, "Bringing her back comes with one major complication," then we could maybe interpret what he said as being all about Jean, and I'd still find it problematic to assume that he was talking about Jean's feelings on the matter. He'd have to explicitly say that for me to think it. In either case, he made it clear that there were "bringing her back comes with a lot of complications."

[JThree]

With the current X-Men being paragons of mutantkind at its best, I find it fitting the way they dealt with Maddie. She's treated as someone who went thru great anguish, and her recovery has been ongoing and ugly and bumpy. Going biblical on her won't set her at ease.

.

Please tell me you're being sarcastic when you discuss X-Men being "paragons of mutant kind at its best?" They seem move like villains these days. May I ask what you mean by going "biblical" on her?
--jthree

[Triniking1234]

Please tell me you're being sarcastic when you discuss X-Men being "paragons of mutant kind at its best?" They seem move like villains these days. May I ask what you mean by going "biblical" on her?
--jthree

He's talking about the team in Duggan's book; not all the mutants on Krakoa.

Like Beast.

[Havok83]

He's talking about the team in Duggan's book; not all the mutants on Krakoa.

Like Beast.

Yeah this team is far from villians. Everything they've done in Duggan's book and crossovers has been heroic

[Frontier]

Simple: Because she—and Jean, to honest—deserved it. That said, this event is about Ben, too, and he hasn’t gotten closure yet.

I think they deserved a resolution and hashing things out, but the story as a whole? Not necessarily.

[JB]

This issue got me right in my feeling, and imho redeemed the mini a tad after a meh issue #1

With the current X-Men being paragons of mutantkind at its best, I find it fitting the way they dealt with Maddie. She's treated as someone who went thru great anguish, and her recovery has been ongoing and ugly and bumpy. Going biblical on her won't set her at ease.

Cyke still licks goats forever tho lmao.

Also idk, did Dark Web have a body count? I skimmed thru the Alpha\Spidey issues and found literary nothing.

One I know of for sure in this mini was when a demonized bike had the severed head of its rider on the front of the bike like a headlight. And I think Maddie did something to someone(s) in another issue.

[Triniking1234]

One I know of for sure in this mini was when a demonized bike had the severed head of its rider on the front of the bike like a headlight. And I think Maddie did something to someone(s) in another issue.

Wells had her use the fruit from the tree on the guy who was stalking Peter Parker in his own book. Not sure if he died or turned into a demon.

[JB]

Wells had her use the fruit from the tree on the guy who was stalking Peter Parker in his own book. Not sure if he died or turned into a demon.

Yeah if he’s a demon then it should be easy to turn him back. And I can pretend the Santa eaten by the Christmas tree was a mutant.

[davetvs]

Okay, then, let's talk about interpreting and how you and others are interpreting what Scott said in Hellions in two very limited ways:



Obviously, Scott's thoughts and comments on the matter in this scene can be interpreted in more ways than the two you offer above, i.e., it's not beyond the realm of possibility that he categorized Jean as one of "a lot of complications" because that's how the Council viewed her—in fact, perhaps it was even the exact word theyused—when deliberating over whether to resurrect Madelyne. It's also not unrealistic to assume Scott was simply speaking for himself. Neither of these interpretations have anything to do with how Jean feels on the matter nor do they necessarily mean or imply that he's a lying misogynist.

Also, again, I'm sorry that you have a problem with "Jean's perpetually generically pleasant archetypal portrayal." One thing you can't say, however, is that it's out of character for her. Frankly, a lot of her fans love her precisely because she is kind, empathic, altruistic, and self-sacrificing, at times, to a rather astounding degree. Trust me I know because of the literally thousands of responses I've received on Twitter regarding this specific issue and other aspects of her story. Ultimately, neither she nor these qualities should be derided or treated as if they're unrealistic or uninteresting, but now I'm veering into judging personal tastes, and I don't want to echo what others have done in this thread.

EDIT:

P.S. Had Scott said something along the lines of, "Bringing her back comes with one major complication," then we could maybe interpret what he said as being all about Jean, and I'd still find it problematic to assume that he was talking about Jean's feelings on the matter. He'd have to explicitly say that for me to think it. In either case, he made it clear that there were "bringing her back comes with a lot of complications."

They have a psychic rapport. He would not list her as being among the complications if he didn't have an incredibly intimate understanding of her thoughts and feelings on this subject or any other.

[Mercury]

They have a psychic rapport. He would not list her as being among the complications if he didn't have an incredibly intimate understanding of her thoughts and feelings on this subject or any other.

Again, you are assuming that he considered her one of “a lot of complications” based on her feelings, which is a stretch, especially when all we have to go by is how she has regarded Madelyne in the past, which, again, echoes and substantiates Jean’s actions in this issue and her position on Madelyne’s resurrection overall.

Moreover, the last time Jean dealt with Madelyne, Madelyne tried to kill her and Nate Grey, and Jean still tried stopping Nate from ending her, i.e., reversing his “resurrection” of her, and told him he didn't have the right to do that. She also tried reaching out to Madelyne right after.

I'm sorry, but I will not not base my interpretations of Jean on her established history. That would be ludicrous.

[Kurolegacy]

Wells had her use the fruit from the tree on the guy who was stalking Peter Parker in his own book. Not sure if he died or turned into a demon.

Pretty sure he died since eating that fruit ripped his soul out and we never saw him again.