View Poll Results: Is Bane's reputation of 'breaking the Bat' deserved?

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  • Yes, he is the only one to truly break the Bat

    27 81.82%
  • No, every villain has 'broken' the Bat in some way

    6 18.18%
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  1. #1
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    Default Is Bane's reputation earned or overblown?

    The description of "Batman - One Bad Day: Bane" has the following sentence:

    "Bane broke the Bat-he’s one of the only villains to ever truly vanquish the Dark Knight-but is that all he’s ever accomplished?"

    Bane is known for literally breaking the Batman's back over his knee.

    But is this a more significant win by Bane, compared to other Bat villains, or have other Batman villains 'broke the Bat' without needing this reputational catchphrase?
    Last edited by lefthanded; 01-18-2023 at 07:10 AM.

  2. #2
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Is Bane's reputation earned or overblown?
    Both.

    Bane broke the Bat in a physical way somewhat unprecedented at the time. That's a real earn there. But, other villains (like Deacon Blackfire, Joker, etc) have more or less "broken" Batman, just often in not in a one-on-one very physical way.
    Last edited by JBatmanFan05; 01-18-2023 at 07:18 AM.
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    Grant Morrison: “Adults...struggle desperately with fiction, demanding constantly that it conform to the rules of everyday life. Adults foolishly demand to know how Superman can possibly fly, or how Batman can possibly run a multibillion-dollar business empire during the day and fight crime at night, when the answer is obvious even to the smallest child: because it's not real.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBatmanFan05 View Post
    Bane broke the Bat in a physical way somewhat unprecedented at the time.
    Only kind of, I mean Batman never lost like that before, but there were other villains before that Batman could not tale down in physical fight, for example Killer Croc and KGBeast.
    Last edited by Aahz; 01-18-2023 at 07:23 AM.

  4. #4
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    I think Bane does take the cake for the most definitive victory over Batman - he'd beaten Batman mentally, physically, and spiritually at the time thanks to his strategies and deductions, using all of the other major villains as unknowing catspaws, and unlike the time that Ra's did a similar scheme in the Bronze Age, it was maximized for attrition, and married to another strategy of invading the manor unexpectedly and then physically breaking Batman because Bane didn't reveal he knew who Batman was until that final moment.

    Having said that, as I pointed out, the overall strategy of releasing the other rogues first was done in the Bronze Age by Ra's, and as others pointed out, previous villains have won their physical fights with Batman, and Joker in particular has managed some brutally crushing spiritual wins over Batman as well, likewise with other villains.

    Really, what made Bane's reputation was that it was executed perfectly from a literary standpoint at the time thanks to Denny O'Neil putting the right guys on the right jobs and spacing the story out correctly for it to emphasize that Bane's brain did most of the work.

    ...It's also why I'd argue that so many creators screw up when they just want him to be a strong dude, and don't write him first as a smart, cunning, and skilled opponent. Frankly, if Bane's cleverness isn't the main highlight of the story, than you ain't writing Bane.
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    I think Knightfall was great.

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    Bane is awesome! Be it as a serious threat or the Harley Quinn cartoon version.

    While his appearances have occasionally missed the mark, I think he's actually been a pretty consistent threat and character*.

    The most sense for him is to be the ruler of Santa Prisca, but that feels like his story arc is complete and makes it a bit difficult to manufacture a reason for him and Batman to fight.

    I'm not a big fan of "Surprise relative" stories but I actually would have been okay with Bane turning out to be Bruce's half-brother. There are shots in vengeance of Bane where he looks exactly like Bruce. It's probably better they didn't go that way.

    I will die on the hill that Hugo Strange is the shadowy Doctor that created Bane's Venom, coerced Bird into fixating Bane on Batman (with Zombie and Trogg also under his thumb) and manipulated Bane's escape. It's just a story waiting to be told.

    I totally agree with godisawesome, it's a shame when writers don't emphasise his mind over his muscle.

    *the awful first New 52 arc, and I'm still not sure why he was invading Gotham towards/through Forever Evil.
    "Has Sariel summoned you here, Azrael? Have you come to witness the miracle of your brethren arriving on Earth?"

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    "*sigh* I hoped it was for the miracle."

    Dan Watters' Azrael was incredible, a constant delight and perhaps too good for this world (but not the Forth). For the love of St. Dumas, DC, give us more!!!

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    What is interesting is that even though Bane did 'break the Bat', his movie appearances have essentially just made him a henchman. For someone with his comic book 'pedigree', they always reduce him to just being a physical brute. Even the Riddler's 2 movie appearances have him be the head villain and accurate to his comic book reputation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lefthanded View Post
    What is interesting is that even though Bane did 'break the Bat', his movie appearances have essentially just made him a henchman. For someone with his comic book 'pedigree', they always reduce him to just being a physical brute. Even the Riddler's 2 movie appearances have him be the head villain and accurate to his comic book reputation.
    It's not just the movies and Tv shows, sadly; Batman Eternal had Bane show up only to end up having him demand a robot suit for a fighting pit in someone else's "Knightfall"-type plan.

    I * do* think he can be a "partner" in a story, though, and not lose street cred; his two alliances with the Al Ghuls, in both the comic story Legacy and in the Dark Knight Rises, see him operating as a junior (Legacy) or senior (TDKR) partner with someone else, and still being a smart, formidable, and personally motivated villain who conceives and drives the plot.

    And I loved the idea of him in the comics taking out much of Ra's's organization and Lazarus Pits after their falling out.
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    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    ...It's also why I'd argue that so many creators screw up when they just want him to be a strong dude, and don't write him first as a smart, cunning, and skilled opponent. Frankly, if Bane's cleverness isn't the main highlight of the story, than you ain't writing Bane.
    Yeah, I agree. Like Doctor Doom or Luthor, always highlight his cleverness. Can highlight his physical prowess too, but right alongside his brains.

    I give King some credit for righting Bane's ship a bit, and highlighting his brains and brawn, and how he uses his pain and his tolerance for suffering pain to his advantage.
    Things I love: Batman, Superman, AEW, old films, Lovecraft

    Grant Morrison: “Adults...struggle desperately with fiction, demanding constantly that it conform to the rules of everyday life. Adults foolishly demand to know how Superman can possibly fly, or how Batman can possibly run a multibillion-dollar business empire during the day and fight crime at night, when the answer is obvious even to the smallest child: because it's not real.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by exile001 View Post
    Bane is awesome! Be it as a serious threat or the Harley Quinn cartoon version.

    While his appearances have occasionally missed the mark, I think he's actually been a pretty consistent threat and character*.

    The most sense for him is to be the ruler of Santa Prisca, but that feels like his story arc is complete and makes it a bit difficult to manufacture a reason for him and Batman to fight.
    Honestly I think even in Knightfall (as great as it is) you have the problem that Banes motivation to break Batman and take over Gotham is super thin.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Honestly I think even in Knightfall (as great as it is) you have the problem that Banes motivation to break Batman and take over Gotham is super thin.
    I myself don't struggle with the motivation because, considering all Bane went thru as shown in Veng of Bane, makes perfect sense to me that his reasons are bound to be somewhat crazy/mad/irrational/idiosyncratic/eccentric, a motivation that is the fruit of very damaged/traumatized, very broken extremely violent and aggressive inferiority-sensitive macho muscle boy who just happened to age into a man.

    (just kinda like how the once-bullied Idaho killer seemed to have a thin or little motivational connection to the four people he murdered when night fell)
    Last edited by JBatmanFan05; 01-18-2023 at 02:19 PM.
    Things I love: Batman, Superman, AEW, old films, Lovecraft

    Grant Morrison: “Adults...struggle desperately with fiction, demanding constantly that it conform to the rules of everyday life. Adults foolishly demand to know how Superman can possibly fly, or how Batman can possibly run a multibillion-dollar business empire during the day and fight crime at night, when the answer is obvious even to the smallest child: because it's not real.”

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Honestly I think even in Knightfall (as great as it is) you have the problem that Banes motivation to break Batman and take over Gotham is super thin.
    Quote Originally Posted by JBatmanFan05 View Post
    I myself don't struggle with the motivation because, considering all Bane went thru as shown in Veng of Bane, makes perfect sense to me that his reasons are bound to be somewhat crazy/mad/irrational/idiosyncratic/eccentric, a motivation that is the fruit of very damaged/traumatized, very broken extremely violent and aggressive inferiority-sensitive macho muscle boy who just happened to age into a man.

    (just kinda like how the Idaho killer seemed to have a thin or little motivational connection to the four people he murdered when night fell)
    I honestly think it might work better if Bane's reason got retconned into just being "Because it seemed like a challenge, and Batman seemed like a hell of a foe" and just spun out into a rivalry afterwards. Like, there's no Batman-specific compulsion or obsession, no personal vendetta, nothing Batman's conventional Big Bad opponents have against Batman - he heard atman was the hardest, baddest motha***** and wanted to see if he could take him down.

    Bane would be crazy because he's so competitive and ambitious he picked a fight with Batman for the sake of seeing how he'd measure up, but not irrational about either his reasons or about how good he and Batman are.

    You could even use that to extrapolate why he didn't kill him when he broke him; he noticed that Batman doesn't kill, and even though Bane does, he felt it would be more interesting if he let Batman have a slim, small chance of coming back.
    Like action, adventure, rogues, and outlaws? Like anti-heroes, femme fatales, mysteries and thrillers?

    I wrote a book with them. Outlaw’s Shadow: A Sherwood Noir. Robin Hood’s evil counterpart, Guy of Gisbourne, is the main character. Feel free to give it a look: https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asi...E2PKBNJFH76GQP

  13. #13
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    I honestly think it might work better if Bane's reason got retconned into just being "Because it seemed like a challenge, and Batman seemed like a hell of a foe" and just spun out into a rivalry afterwards. Like, there's no Batman-specific compulsion or obsession, no personal vendetta, nothing Batman's conventional Big Bad opponents have against Batman - he heard atman was the hardest, baddest motha***** and wanted to see if he could take him down.
    Maybe because I have no problem with Bane's motivation, that's why I do not see any reason to radically retcon his creators' foundational texts on him. Bane is one of Batman's "conventional Big Bad opponents" and I think there's no shame in that, nothing to be fixed....not many post-Golden/Silver/Bronze created foes get afforded such an exclusive high spot, respectful treatment in Batman's rogues gallery.

    As I see it, Bane did it all because a) he heard Batman was the hardest, baddest motha***** and wanted to see if he could take him down (he heard that like Peña Duro, fear rules Gotham but it is the fear of Batman, so Bane sees a challenge there), and b) he understandably had some bad dreams in his life and eventually bats just happened to get caught up in them and that added a warped obsession element to it all, feeling fate is drawing him to this competitive confrontation.
    Last edited by JBatmanFan05; 01-19-2023 at 06:59 AM.
    Things I love: Batman, Superman, AEW, old films, Lovecraft

    Grant Morrison: “Adults...struggle desperately with fiction, demanding constantly that it conform to the rules of everyday life. Adults foolishly demand to know how Superman can possibly fly, or how Batman can possibly run a multibillion-dollar business empire during the day and fight crime at night, when the answer is obvious even to the smallest child: because it's not real.”

  14. #14
    I'm at least a C-Lister! exile001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    It's not just the movies and Tv shows, sadly; Batman Eternal had Bane show up only to end up having him demand a robot suit for a fighting pit in someone else's "Knightfall"-type plan.
    Not just anyone, but fucking Cluemaster's plan!!!

    I LOVE me some Cluemaster and eternal in general, but Bane was done dirty in that book.
    "Has Sariel summoned you here, Azrael? Have you come to witness the miracle of your brethren arriving on Earth?"

    "I WILL MIX THE ASHES OF YOUR BONES WITH SALT AND USE THEM TO ENSURE THE EARTH THE TEMPLARS TILLED NEVER BEARS FRUIT AGAIN!"

    "*sigh* I hoped it was for the miracle."

    Dan Watters' Azrael was incredible, a constant delight and perhaps too good for this world (but not the Forth). For the love of St. Dumas, DC, give us more!!!

  15. #15
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    From storyline's point of view, yeah, it is. He defeated Bruce, broke him both physically and psychologically. And despite the fact, that King's run was bad, Bane was a huge threat there as well, he killed Alfred after all.
    But the problem is that many writers simply do not know what to do with him, and there are many people who simply do not like him. And another problem is the huge focus on the Joker. It hurts the entire Bat-Rogues gallery, not just Bane.

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