Is Bane's reputation earned or overblown?

[exile001]

And another problem is the huge focus on the Joker. It hurts the entire Bat-Rogues gallery, not just Bane.

Joker and Scarecrow. Those two have been the centre point for, like, half the events since the New 52 started. Maybe more.

I'm not saying Cataclysm was great, it wasn't, but the writers used a little imagination and its big bad was a bait-and-switch using obscure villain Quakemaster, who actually turned out to be the Ventriloquist & Scarface trying to pull a massive scam.

A little creativity can give a lower tier villain a boost and provide a fun surprise for readers. It can do much more for a top-tier villain like Bane.

[Frontier]

Joker and Scarecrow. Those two have been the centre point for, like, half the events since the New 52 started. Maybe more.

I'm not saying Cataclysm was great, it wasn't, but the writers used a little imagination and its big bad was a bait-and-switch using obscure villain Quakemaster, who actually turned out to be the Ventriloquist & Scarface trying to pull a massive scam.

A little creativity can give a lower tier villain a boost and provide a fun surprise for readers. It can do much more for a top-tier villain like Bane.

Riddler was also the Big Bad of Zero Year.

[exile001]

Riddler was also the Big Bad of Zero Year.

That and War of Jokes and Riddles (which wasn't really an event per se), but I think they're the only times he was the big bad.

I'd kill for a huge, sprawling event with Riddler finally achieving his potential. But it's hard to write genuinely intelligent characters which, as noted, is why Bane is usually dumbed down.

Heck, outside of Prodigal, where he was a foil to Dick's distance past, I don't think Two-Face has headlined an event has he?

As utterly dumb as it is, I was absolutely delighted throughout Night of the Monster Men when one of my absolute favourites Hugo Strange finally got a spotlight. I also love a Kaiju.

[Frontier]

That and War of Jokes and Riddles (which wasn't really an event per se), but I think they're the only times he was the big bad.

I'd kill for a huge, sprawling event with Riddler finally achieving his potential. But it's hard to write genuinely intelligent characters which, as noted, is why Bane is usually dumbed down.

Heck, outside of Prodigal, where he was a foil to Dick's distance past, I don't think Two-Face has headlined an event has he?

As utterly dumb as it is, I was absolutely delighted throughout Night of the Monster Men when one of my absolute favourites Hugo Strange finally got a spotlight. I also love a Kaiju.

Two-Face has had a few arcs (All-Star's initial story, I think a few arcs in 'Tec) but that's about it.

[JBatmanFan05]

Two-Face has had a few arcs (All-Star's initial story, I think a few arcs in 'Tec) but that's about it.

Yea, Snyder/Romita's All Star arc starring Two-Face was a significantly promoted kinda big time story for Two-Face. And I liked most of it a good deal, fun and a clever take on Two-Face.

It can perhaps be argued that Two-Face has gotten bigger more important big-threat stories over the past decades than Riddler, Scarecrow, or Penguin. Prodigal & L.Halloween seemed to up interest in him.

[exile001]

I think I'm in the minority of those who really liked the first arc of All-Star*.

I thought Snyder was doing a Harvey knows but Two-Face doesn't thing, which is really interesting, but sadly that wasn't kept up. But it was a fun Two-Face story as a weird buddy cross-country romp/chase thing. I'm sure he was influenced by those old movies like "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World."

The name badge for KGBeast with KG crossed out really made me laugh out loud, and I think it did a decent job setting him up as a threat again.

*Except the awful Killer Moth/Firefly redesigns. I may be a little biased, though.

[phonogram12]

At the time of Knightfall, no. I think he earned it with better stories later on. King's take was really good, for example.

[Frontier]

At the time of Knightfall, no. I think he earned it with better stories later on. King's take was really good, for example.

I feel like Knightfall set the bar, arguably, while King kind of fell apart because of Thomas Wayne and Kings' won writing style, but your mileage may vary.

Gail Simone wrote a good Bane.

[phonogram12]

I feel like Knightfall set the bar, arguably...

It felt unearned for his first real storyline, imho. A real Marty Stu for lack of a better term.

...while King kind of fell apart because of Thomas Wayne and Kings' won writing style, but your mileage may vary.

While Thomas Wayne was, indeed, the mastermind behind it all, I still felt King made Bruce and Bane's rivalry palpable and Bane still a very dangerous threat. With every panel I could literally feel how much they hated each other and it was absolutely thrilling to read, since (to me, anyway) Bane actually came off as a real person for the first time.

Gail Simone wrote a good Bane.

While I enjoyed her run on Secret Six, he kind of seemed like an entirely different character to me. No where near vicious and sadistic enough and a bit...simple I guess is the word I'm looking for here.

[godisawesome]

King was definitely going for a more "romanticized villainy" thing with his Bane, as he was with his entire Batman run - pseudo-poetic musings, purely emotion based manipulation that also plays like a romance, repetition of the back-breaking motif, etc.

...sadly for me, as with much of King's latter part of his run, I found it a bit florid without being truly mythical; I prefer my operatic villainy to still combine a good deal of more "enlightenment" style villainy with more realistic (if less heavily emotional) psychology into their romanticism.

It's probably why I think the best Bane overall is the Arkham Origins one; JB Blanc gives a vocal performance with some poeticism to it and some volatile, barely-held-back emotion, but is still a clinically analytical, devious villain overall, with a more logical and sneaky way of deducing Batman's identity before his attacks on the Manor and Cave.

I feel like King's Bane would be annihilated by any of the other good Bane's in any story that doesn't follow King's florid rules of storytelling, because he's not logical enough and is running off literary themes rather than psychology or strategy, but still has a personality some versions lack.

[Aahz]

The name badge for KGBeast with KG crossed out really made me laugh out loud, and I think it did a decent job setting him up as a threat again.

Unfortunatly he has now ben turned into a complete Joke.

[Frontier]

It felt unearned for his first real storyline, imho. A real Marty Stu for lack of a better term.

I mean, he then went on to lose to Azrael not long after so I don't think he's a Marty Stu so much as that's just how the story was set up.

Although didn't he appear a little before Knightfall?

While Thomas Wayne was, indeed, the mastermind behind it all, I still felt King made Bruce and Bane's rivalry palpable and Bane still a very dangerous threat. With every panel I could literally feel how much they hated each other and it was absolutely thrilling to read, since (to me, anyway) Bane actually came off as a real person for the first time.

I felt that more in the earlier arcs but that could just be how apathetic I became to King's run in the later issues and how they resolved everything.

While I enjoyed her run on Secret Six, he kind of seemed like an entirely different character to me. No where near vicious and sadistic enough and a bit...simple I guess is the word I'm looking for here.

He'd mellowed out a lot but there was still that calculating, efficient, nature to him.

It's probably why I think the best Bane overall is the Arkham Origins one; JB Blanc gives a vocal performance with some poeticism to it and some volatile, barely-held-back emotion, but is still a clinically analytical, devious villain overall, with a more logical and sneaky way of deducing Batman's identity before his attacks on the Manor and Cave.

While not as memorable, I love how they brought Blanc back for Bane in the Telltale games.

[phonogram12]

I mean, he then went on to lose to Azrael not long after so I don't think he's a Marty Stu so much as that's just how the story was set up.

Of course. Because there was literally no where else the character could go after taking down Batman. That's what happens when a character is created for the sole purpose of bringing down the protagonist. In his initial appearances, Bane was more a plot device than an actual character.

Although didn't he appear a little before Knightfall?

Honestly? Barely from what I remember.

I felt that more in the earlier arcs but that could just be how apathetic I became to King's run in the later issues and how they resolved everything.

This is the same way I felt during Bane's initial appearances.

He'd mellowed out a lot but there was still that calculating, efficient, nature to him.

I just didn't see it. Honestly? He seemed a lot more akin to Schumacher's version in Batman & Robin except with a slightly bigger vocabulary.

[Frontier]

Of course. Because there was literally no where else the character could go after taking down Batman. That's what happens when a character is created for the sole purpose of bringing down the protagonist. In his initial appearances, Bane was more a plot device than an actual character.

I wouldn't put him on the level of, say, Doomsday because I think they gave him actual characterization and motivation to go along with his story purpose, and we got the progression of Bruce losing to Bane, who lost to Azrael, who lost to a reborn Bruce, which made sense from a narrative progression standpoint.

And they used Bane more frequently than they used Doomsday so it feels like there was more to him as a character.

Honestly? Barely from what I remember.

At least there might've been something .

This is the same way I felt during Bane's initial appearances.

Well, I liked Knightfall more than I liked King's run so ...

I just didn't see it. Honestly? He seemed a lot more akin to Schumacher's version in Batman & Robin except with a slightly bigger vocabulary.

I think he came of wayyyyyy more respectable than that. About the only thing I would say was similar to Schumacher was his fixation of Scandal as a daughter-like figure but I think it was fairly complex.

[Felipe Silveira]

Bane broke Batman, got Talia, beat Dick and Jason at least once. Killed Alfred.