Did you enjoy reading the 90s Clone Saga while it was being published?

[CaptainUniverse]

Oh yeah, of course I started quite late with the Clone Saga and technically I haven't finished it all yet due to IRL stuff that was going on at the time, so I am eventually planning on setting aside some time to relive the 90's in all its maddening technicolor glory by getting the Clone Saga trades, reading them and then switching over to Spider-Girl once I hit Revelations. Revelations is too sad for me to ever read again. Poor Peter and MJ. Poor Ben.

I didn't enjoy it because I wasn't born yet!

Kids these days, always making excuses!

[HypnoHustler]

Yes, LOVED IT. I was a kid, I'm sure I'd be a little more discerning about its flaws nowadays. But back then it was like Mana from Heaven for me every Wednesday. Loved all the convoluted twists and turns, and the camaraderie between Peter and Ben. While many other fans were rushing for the exits, those two years were undoubtedly my favorite time as a fan.

[HypnoHustler]

I remember Wizard magazine loved mocking the Scarlet Spider, but then again, there was a lot of stuff they mocked for no reason.

Wizard hated HATED Ben Reilly. Reading their magazine as a kid gave me my first inkling that not everyone shared my love of Ben.

I'm glad they're gone. Good riddance. Toxic magazine that had way too much influence and as well as gatekeeping so much of what they deemed acceptable, I also remember some of the creepy features they ran like those borderline-misogynistic "cheesecake" features about female comic characters.

[Huntsman Spider]

Wizard hated HATED Ben Reilly. Reading their magazine as a kid gave me my first inkling that not everyone shared my love of Ben.

I'm glad they're gone. Good riddance. Toxic magazine that had way too much influence and as well as gatekeeping so much of what they deemed acceptable, I also remember some of the creepy features they ran like those borderline-misgynistic "cheesecake" features about female comic characters.

Sadly, the spirit of Wizard is still with us to this day, given how some comics fans tend to behave.

[Mister Mets]

Not really.

I was a kid getting into comics, although I would mostly get scattered issues rather than the entire story. So a big part of it is that I just got a handful of chapters of a much larger story.

Of course, it also often wasn't very good, but that's another issue.

[Alan2099]

As a kid I liked the idea of two Spider-Men (more is always better!) But hated it when first Peter Parker was declared as the fake and then later when Ben had to give up the identity of Scarlet Spider because of an evil "Cyber Scarlet Spider" imposter destroying his reputation. It ran too long though (and with too many fake outs) and the Jackal felt like an annoying Joker wannabee. I also didn't like that they tried to build up the new Kaine villain as some ultimate bad ass by killing off a beloved classic Spidey foe (Doctor Octopus).
All the virtual reality stuff was really lame and just read like the writers were a bunch of old men trying to appear hip and youthful.

I didn't get the idea of trying to merge cyberspace with the real world, but I did kinda like the evil Scarlet Spider guy.

I remember he even got his own action figure.

I didn't enjoy it because I wasn't born yet!

We'll let it go this time, but don't let it happen again.

Not really.

I was a kid getting into comics, although I would mostly get scattered issues rather than the entire story. So a big part of it is that I just got a handful of chapters of a much larger story.

Of course, it also often wasn't very good, but that's another issue.

It took me YEARS to track down the entire X-Cutioner's Song. Almost as long for Maximum Carnage.

One of the fun things about just getting the random issues was =when there was a character you didn't know, you had no way of knowing whether or not this character was supposed to be a major important player or not.

[Vegeta]

I don't mean to bore you out of your mind with backstage minutiae, but the funny thing is that the skeleton was literally brought in to close the storyarc once and for all. Blood Brothers, which began almost right after the discovery in the smokestack, was meant to off Ben (yes, this early in his tenure) and reestablish Peter as the original.
However, there was an editorial shakeup and the new EiC didn't want it to "conclude so soon", wanting to make an event out of it and thinking it'd get in the way of Onslaught (maybe if they did a line-wide relaunch for it, I guess? Onslaught was still a few months away).
So I think it's pretty damn humurous that "exactly what they wanted to conclude everything already" literally became the last nail in the coffin for readers out there.

Oh you didn't bore me at all, thank you for sharing! Crazy that they thought introducing another clone was the way to go after the exhaustive back and forth of "who is the real Peter Parker" we just suffered through.

I didn't get the idea of trying to merge cyberspace with the real world, but I did kinda like the evil Scarlet Spider guy.

I remember he even got his own action figure.

Spidey looks weirdly uncomfortable squished into that "Steel Shock Armor." That is a tiny little waist compared to his chest!!! Did the Cyber Scarlet Spider ever appear again after this series? (Like a random back up story or issue of "Avengers Initiative" or something ?)

[HypnoHustler]

I don't mean to bore you out of your mind with backstage minutiae, but the funny thing is that the skeleton was literally brought in to close the storyarc once and for all. Blood Brothers, which began almost right after the discovery in the smokestack, was meant to off Ben (yes, this early in his tenure) and reestablish Peter as the original.
However, there was an editorial shakeup and the new EiC didn't want it to "conclude so soon", wanting to make an event out of it and thinking it'd get in the way of Onslaught (maybe if they did a line-wide relaunch for it, I guess? Onslaught was still a few months away).
So I think it's pretty damn humurous that "exactly what they wanted to conclude everything already" literally became the last nail in the coffin for readers out there.

Last nail for Dan Jurgens too lol

Although it was a huge sales disaster keeping Ben as Spidey for an extra 6-7 months, I’m so happy it worked out that way. We got an extra half year of Spider-Ben stories! Including some of the best stuff like Spider-Man: Redemption.

Also if that original plan had gone through, Gaunt would be the sole mastermind and would’ve been revealed to be Harry. So a very different landscape. I bet Norman would’ve been brought back eventually anyway (as no one in comics stays dead anymore) but probably under very different circumstances and perhaps a lot later (maybe to coincide with the Raimi movies).

[Spiderfang]

I know I mentioned the 90's Animated Series earlier, but are there any other relics of the time that my fellow 90's kids used to indulge while reading the Clone Saga? The animated series always makes me think of the Clone Saga, I know I started with Macfarlane's Spider-Man, but I read the most of the Clone Saga and got to know the characters introduced in that. Spawn the series reminds me of the Clone Saga (maybe it's just the 90's as a whole that it reminds me of), and Daria (late 90's) always makes me think to when Ben died the first time (I know I didn't learn about Ben's fate until like 2002 or something, but I retroactively think back to then with memories of the Clone Saga). I also of course had the tie-in Spider-Man game for SNES, based off of the animated series and Maximum Carnage as well (I didn't actually own it at the time, but it feels like I was constantly renting that along with EarthBound from the local Blockbuster Video).

Oh I also wanted to ask if and how has anyone's perception of the Clone Saga and it's chief participants (Ben, Kaine, Trainor, Traveller, Scrier, Jackal, etc) changed or reinforced after coming back it from a break period? I've noticed that lot's of readers from back then stopped around the time Ben became Spider-Man, or just before. I'm not entire sure which all issues of the Clone Saga that I had accumulated as a kid; I definitely know I had most of the trial of Peter Parker, because I vividly remember Kaine crashing the court hearing in such a dramatic fashion and that was the last I'd ever seen of him. I can't remember if that was precisely where I left off as a kid in the 90's (I dropped the comic because of money and careless relatives & their destructive pets) I would however learn while I was in high school (I believe around the time that the first Raimi Spider-Man film premiered) that Ben had died in 1996 - I probably discovered this via the Ben Reilly tribute (oldest Ben Reilly fan site in existence iirc) and remember being bummed, but not surprised that he was killed off. Now after learning all of that, I wouldn't come full circle back to collecting comic books until 2016-2017 (also when I with you lot here), I think I started collecting (or rather 're-collecting') my lost Clone Saga comics through the trade paperback collections, which by Winter of 2018 was complete. I went through and re-read (because even after almost 30 years, my mind found most of the plot, characters, and scenery in the books familiar) the important parts of the Saga (Gwen's return, the clone revelation, Trainor's death, Ock's death, Aunt May's death, Peter's trial, the clone reunion, Spidercide's death, etc) and I honestly enjoyed the parts of Ben's past in SLC (where I'm from) and the relationship between he and Peter, I liked Dr. Octopus and Kraven's designs, even though they were totally products of their time; tall & built like pro-wrestlers, and of course that unmistakable Rob Liefeld designs. Overall I thought it was decent, good even - would probably have benefited from less padding, but every major event and book has these types of build-ups and "filler characters" I suppose. Re-reading in present times, whenever I return to the "Good-bye Ben...you changed my life. Brother." part, it always hits hard even though I didn't get to read it when it initially dropped. Also even though it was kind of contrived, drawn-out and nonsensical at times; I learned that I greatly prefer logical, manipulative villainous reveals (i.e. it was Norman all along) over mystical, demonic, supernatural stuff (i.e. Mephisto, Kindred, etc).

Oh did anyone ever listen to music back in the 90's with their comic book reading? My mom had eclectic tastes and would always have Lisa Loeb or Madonna playing in the house (before she made the giant shift to only classical music) so whenever I hear "The Power of Goodbye", I kind of think of Ben for some weird reason, even though the song was very obviously not written about him or someone like him - but I guess the feelings of just leaving without notice (learn to say goodbye) made me think about the time(s) Ben had ran away on his own to find himself and then I guess it became sort of a "memorial" song after he died.

[HypnoHustler]

Oh did anyone ever listen to music back in the 90's with their comic book reading? My mom had eclectic tastes and would always have Lisa Loeb or Madonna playing in the house (before she made the giant shift to only classical music) so whenever I hear "the Power of Goodbye", I kind of think of Ben for some weird reason, even though the song was very obviously not written about him or someone like him - but I guess the feelings of just leaving without notice (learn to say goodbye) made me think about the time(s) Ben had ran away on his own to find himself and then I guess it became sort of a "memorial" song after that.

This is what I listened to when Ben died or soon afterwards. Kinda 90s grungy tune and when the lyric says “bro” it sounds like the person is degenerating mid sentence.

https://youtu.be/GxH8g4AGwu8

I even used it for a Revelations themed music video like 15 years ago.

https://youtu.be/evQUVYtyNJc

This is what I listened to when Norman came back a few months after killing Ben. It really fit his omnipotent and evil persona.

https://youtu.be/59g5R8rwqpY

[boots]

Although it was a huge sales disaster keeping Ben as Spidey for an extra 6-7 months, I’m so happy it worked out that way.

i know this is the accepted version of events, and i'm not exactly challenging it, but i've never been able to find a statement or figures to support it.

[boots]

Not really.

I was a kid getting into comics, although I would mostly get scattered issues rather than the entire story. So a big part of it is that I just got a handful of chapters of a much larger story.

Of course, it also often wasn't very good, but that's another issue.

weirdly enough, this is also how i experienced it but i think for me it was a positive. i somehow managed to miss all the bad stuff in the "saga" so i was left with nothing but good vibes.

[HypnoHustler]

i know this is the accepted version of events, and i'm not exactly challenging it, but i've never been able to find a statement or figures to support it.

I don’t know either. I just get my info from Life of Reilly. In any event, for once an editorial mishap worked in us Ben fans’ favor. Some of his best solo stuff came after Blood Brothers.

[boots]

loved every issue. there was an energy and enthusiasm from the spider-staff that i don't think was there before or had amped up during the initial phase of the "saga". it was palpable and infectious; you could feel it through the page.

not even wizard was able to dampen my enthusiasm ( i was also starting to get old enough to see the heavy bias and shitty journalism behind the humour and fun of that mag). i even enjoyed the online fighting over ben vs peter on forums at the time. it might be nostalgia and the age i was, but it was exciting both as a read and as a community.

it only made me a bigger fan of spider-man comics. i was into every twist: yes, even ben being made the real deal. his death was the last issue of spider-man i bought for years.

it's still a huge influence on me creatively (and yes, i know that's going to be a concern for many).

[boots]

I don’t know either. I just get my info from Life of Reilly. In any event, for once an editorial mishap worked in us Ben fans’ favor. Some of his best solo stuff came after Blood Brothers.

ah yeah, life of reilly was one of the places i went to source some info on this. the most it seemed to suggest was that budiansky talked himself into believing ben would work and then jurgens talked him out of it.

interviews from mackie and defalco seem to indicate it was selling fine.

i might have missed some crucial info though.