Did you enjoy reading the 90s Clone Saga while it was being published?

[IamnotJudasTraveller]

Oh you didn't bore me at all, thank you for sharing! Crazy that they thought introducing another clone was the way to go after the exhaustive back and forth of "who is the real Peter Parker" we just suffered through.

Playing devil's advocate, I can see how they thought it'd 'work' because at that point they hadn't even settled on who the mastermind was - they just knew they were going to undo the switch, so for a quick fix that could have worked. The problem is that the "quick fix" devolved into another 8 months of twists and turns.

Last nail for Dan Jurgens too lol

Yeah, though if it were the quick fix he'd likely have stuck around. I just kinda weep for what happened to the Jessica storyline as a result of this - he clearly wanted her to stick around and play off the massive grudge she has against Spider-Man, but since he debuted her when Ben was Spidey and was leaving the titles, there was no choice other than wrap the story that early.

Although it was a huge sales disaster keeping Ben as Spidey for an extra 6-7 months, I’m so happy it worked out that way.

i know this is the accepted version of events, and i'm not exactly challenging it, but i've never been able to find a statement or figures to support it.

Glenn says in Life of Reilly that when Budiansky was 'overthrown' due to Harras becoming CEO that it was no small irony, because he even improved the sales after he was instated as Spider editory. Glenn has no shortage of criticisms to the Clone Saga and says Ben had no reason to stay once Peter was established as the actual Peter Parker, so it really doesn't feel like he's trying to play it close to his chest - hell, he even says that a Ben spinoff released at the time would likely get cancelled. So I do believe that if the sales DID dip while Ben remained Spider-Man, he'd have said as much - hell, the entire series of articles literally detail how the good sales protracted the payoff and made Ben remain Scarlet Spider a lot longer. So I'm sure if the sales did get so bad they'd have no chance to reestablish Peter, he'd have said it.

His account with Harras being very hands on and wanting his way gels with all other tales of the time - DeFalco was on his F4 run where Reed was dead for years, and word has it Harras simply said he could either bring Reed back or be fired. Harras telling them to extend the story further and just mandating Norman as the villain (no writer was onboard with it) makes sense. And I think that the proof is in the pudding, isn't it? If the sales were so bad, they'd never have dared extend it more than half a year.

[HypnoHustler]

Yeah, though if it were the quick fix he'd likely have stuck around. I just kinda weep for what happened to the Jessica storyline as a result of this - he clearly wanted her to stick around and play off the massive grudge she has against Spider-Man, but since he debuted her when Ben was Spidey and was leaving the titles, there was no choice other than wrap the story that early.

The Jessica storyline doesn’t work with Peter though, since he was married at the time. The romantic angle gave it that Montague/Capulet forbidden love drama. Otherwise the burglar’s daughter is just a random woman who hates Spider-Man.

[Huntsman Spider]

The Jessica storyline doesn’t work with Peter though, since he was married at the time. The romantic angle gave it that Montague/Capulet forbidden love drama. Otherwise the burglar’s daughter is just a random woman who hates Spider-Man.

Funny enough, Spectacular Spider-Man (the animated series) revisited that idea by having Black Cat's father be Uncle Ben's killer, which basically destroyed the Spider-Man/Black Cat flirtation as Black Cat blamed Spidey for her father choosing to stay in prison to atone for what he'd done when she'd broken in to get him out.

[Refrax5]

I was a kid and only maybe two years into reading comics and I really enjoyed it. Ben Reilly defeating Venom early on was a great moment. I wasn't thrilled with the reveal that Peter was a clone and Ben was the real Spidey, but I really enjoyed Ben's run as Spider-Man. I remember being really saddened by Ben's death (and when you're a kid, losing a character you love like that REALLY stings) although Norman being alive was pretty amazing to me, since he'd been dead the whole time I had been reading and had a legendary status.

I definitely have a bias towards it because I was so young that I didn't have a lot of preconceived ideas. I definitely understand why people might not have liked it at the time, especially the Norman reveal. But to me it was so cool and exciting and Ben became a huge favorite of mine. And I reread so much of the Ben stuff over the years that I just grew to love and miss him more.

[kingaliencracker]

I really enjoyed it until Ben replaced Peter, but didn't actually replace Peter.

If the idea was to go towards a "back to the basics" approach, the resolution should have been Ben taking back over Peter's life once he was revealed as the real Peter. Once it was clear Ben was going to stay Ben, I think that killed the momentum of the story for me.

[Refrax5]

I really enjoyed it until Ben replaced Peter, but didn't actually replace Peter.

If the idea was to go towards a "back to the basics" approach, the resolution should have been Ben taking back over Peter's life once he was revealed as the real Peter. Once it was clear Ben was going to stay Ben, I think that killed the momentum of the story for me.

I feel like it wasn't really plausible for him to just retake Peter's life after he was gone so long. He isn't married to MJ, he doesn't even know some of the people that Peter does and the people he does know he's lost years of experiences with. The better writers also wrote Ben as having a somewhat different personality and perspective than the Peter we had known, so it seems counter to the characters to have him suddenly pretend to be the same person. It feels kind of pointless if you just put him back in the Peter role like that. Like why replace Peter with a guy that's going be exactly the same?

[kingaliencracker]

I feel like it wasn't really plausible for him to just retake Peter's life after he was gone so long. He isn't married to MJ, he doesn't even know some of the people that Peter does and the people he does know he's lost years of experiences with. The better writers also wrote Ben as having a somewhat different personality and perspective than the Peter we had known, so it seems counter to the characters to have him suddenly pretend to be the same person. It feels kind of pointless if you just put him back in the Peter role like that. Like why replace Peter with a guy that's going be exactly the same?

There were two different paths for the Clone Saga, with variations of those paths being planned, implemented, or changed at various points:

a) Ben is falsely revealed to be the real Peter, he takes over the Spider-Man mantle for a while, and then Peter is ultimately revealed to be the true Spider-Man

b) Ben is revealed to be the true Spider-Man, retakes his life as Peter Parker, and the clone goes off with Mary Jane to live happily ever after with their baby

Ben wasn't meant to have a different personality than Peter, at least not initially. In fact, he was originally written in a way to try and show he really was Peter Parker, as Peter was depicted in the Lee/Ditko/Romita/Conway years, in contrast to how "clone" Peter had developed into a more brooding and unrelatable character.

I was fine with the "back to the basics" approach the writers wanted to do with Ben, but it was never going to work unless he took over as Peter Parker, with Peter's cast of supporting characters and villains This was the general feeling amongst the writers once it was believed Ben was actually going to be permanently implanted as Spider-Man. They were expecting Ben to take over as Peter under that premise. It was only because the editor at the time (can't remember his name) got talked out of Ben taking over permanently by Dan Jurgens (who had just join the Spider books or was about to) that Ben didn't take back his life as Peter.

A blonde Spider-Man working as a barista or whatever was never NOT going to be confusing for new readers, especially when all other media still depicted Spider-Man as Peter Parker, with Peter's classic supporting cast.

[Spiderfang]

Hey I had a wild hair of an idea recently and figured I would run it by fellow Clone Saga/Ben Reilly fans. So what I was thinking was reviewing the Clone Saga as a whole, piece by piece - starting with the original 70's Clone Saga to the end of the 90's Clone Saga, then picking up the bits where Ben comes back (Spider Island, Clone Conspiracy, Scarlet Spider (2017). I wouldn't just be reviewing the Clone Saga, but also discussing my reaction from the 90's, TV and other comicbook tie-ins and discussing the roles and importance of certain characters, this would of course be uploaded on my youtube channel @AedanStarfang.

[xpyred]

I was missing a large chunk of the stories when it first released. I had bought Power and Responsibility upon release, and then somehow missed the Exiled Returns and Back from the Edge. The next few issues I had purchases were Spectacular Spider-Man 219, and all of Web of Death. I missed out on Web of Life except for the final issue of that story. From I missed Funeral for an Octopus but managed to get Spider-Man Unlimited 8. From then on, I had every issue of every story except Final Adventure 2 and 3, the Family Plot two part story, most of Planet of the Symbiotes, a few unlimited issues and The Osborn Journal. It took me several years to purchase those issues but i enjoyed whatever I had with whatever holes of story i was missing.

[Refrax5]

There were two different paths for the Clone Saga, with variations of those paths being planned, implemented, or changed at various points:

a) Ben is falsely revealed to be the real Peter, he takes over the Spider-Man mantle for a while, and then Peter is ultimately revealed to be the true Spider-Man

b) Ben is revealed to be the true Spider-Man, retakes his life as Peter Parker, and the clone goes off with Mary Jane to live happily ever after with their baby

Ben wasn't meant to have a different personality than Peter, at least not initially. In fact, he was originally written in a way to try and show he really was Peter Parker, as Peter was depicted in the Lee/Ditko/Romita/Conway years, in contrast to how "clone" Peter had developed into a more brooding and unrelatable character.

I was fine with the "back to the basics" approach the writers wanted to do with Ben, but it was never going to work unless he took over as Peter Parker, with Peter's cast of supporting characters and villains This was the general feeling amongst the writers once it was believed Ben was actually going to be permanently implanted as Spider-Man. They were expecting Ben to take over as Peter under that premise. It was only because the editor at the time (can't remember his name) got talked out of Ben taking over permanently by Dan Jurgens (who had just join the Spider books or was about to) that Ben didn't take back his life as Peter.

A blonde Spider-Man working as a barista or whatever was never NOT going to be confusing for new readers, especially when all other media still depicted Spider-Man as Peter Parker, with Peter's classic supporting cast.

I just don't see how that could plausibly work. Suddenly, he's interacting with people he hasn't seen in years or doesn't know at all, suddenly he's not married to MJ, but MJ is still married to a guy that looks exactly like him? It just seems really ridiculous.

[CaptainUniverse]

I just don't see how that could plausibly work. Suddenly, he's interacting with people he hasn't seen in years or doesn't know at all, suddenly he's not married to MJ, but MJ is still married to a guy that looks exactly like him? It just seems really ridiculous.

This part could easily be explained by pulling a similar dynamic to the Hyperion/Zarda/Grandmaster's Hyperion clone love triangle from Squadron Supreme and Paradise X by having Ben be in love with MJ but MJ be in love with Peter. Sure...Ben may be the original Peter but the one MJ fell for was the Clone. Fitting it into continuity would require some finesse but...I think it might have been possible, also it would make Ben one of the most tragic Spider-Men of all time:

[kingaliencracker]

I just don't see how that could plausibly work. Suddenly, he's interacting with people he hasn't seen in years or doesn't know at all, suddenly he's not married to MJ, but MJ is still married to a guy that looks exactly like him? It just seems really ridiculous.

I think that was the point - Peter interacting with his friends that he hadn't really seen in a few years or whatever. Kind of a fish-out-of-water situation.

As far as Mary Jane, she was going to move with the clone and have a baby. I'm sure the in-story explanation would have been they broke up. It's not that ridiculous.

[boots]

I think that was the point - Peter interacting with his friends that he hadn't really seen in a few years or whatever. Kind of a fish-out-of-water situation.

As far as Mary Jane, she was going to move with the clone and have a baby. I'm sure the in-story explanation would have been they broke up. It's not that ridiculous.

i think in the 90s it was a stretch

now? standard

[Mister Mets]

I think that was the point - Peter interacting with his friends that he hadn't really seen in a few years or whatever. Kind of a fish-out-of-water situation.

As far as Mary Jane, she was going to move with the clone and have a baby. I'm sure the in-story explanation would have been they broke up. It's not that ridiculous.

His aunt and best friend were dead, so there would also be less people to care about weird stuff going on in Peter's life.

The biggest issues would be Flash Thompson and the Daily Bugle, and that could be massaged.

[Jman27]

His aunt and best friend were dead, so there would also be less people to care about weird stuff going on in Peter's life.

The biggest issues would be Flash Thompson and the Daily Bugle, and that could be massaged.

was he friends with flash at that point