Did you enjoy reading the 90s Clone Saga while it was being published?

[Spiderfang]

I actually started collecting/reading Marvel in the 90's with Macfarlane's Spider-Man and then the Clone Saga. I was like 10 or 11 give or take at the time I couldn't/can't articulate how long a regular comic book would have lasted and what would/should be considered bad writing, etc.

I do know that I liked the idea of having two Spider-Mans, even though Ben was and still is pretty different from Peter. I know that I thought Kaine was a very intimidating villain, and I was shocked/surprised to learn that he was a clone of Peter's. I didn't get the references to Gwen Stacy and Miles Warren and the original "evil Spider-Man" (Ben Reilly) because I never read the 70's original Clone Saga, so I just figured it was written for the plot at the time.

I remember that I really liked the new villains (Lady Octopus, Shriek, Stunner, etc) and that I liked the redesigns for classic villains, Doc Ock, Vulture, Lizard, etc and that I would look for similarities between the Clone Saga and the 90's cartoon (which still holds up today imho).

I never knew what became of Ben or Jackal or the whole clone situation because most of the comics I had collected were ruined (pages torn/fell out, dogs got to them, etc) and so I stopped collecting because I figured they would just get ruined at some point. I learned what became of Ben in the early/mid 2000's I think, sometime after the Tobey Maguire films came out and that got me curious about the old Spider comics I used to collect. Needless to say, I was bummed...probably less bummed as I was when the Clone Conspiracy came out in 2017 (if you know, you know...)

[Matt Rat]

When the clone saga started, I didn't quite know what to make of it at first as at the time Peter was still in the midst of his "The Spider" phase, so a lot of that early set up with Ben and Traveller felt like it was intruding on that. I still found "Power and Responsibility" pretty fun though, and I do still love Traveller to this day.

From there, we got "The Exile Returns" where Ben humbles Venom hardcore, and then I bought a copy of Amazing#400, and while Aunt May's death was the bigger take from it, Ben and Peter's conversations (and Ben's reaction to May's death) stuck with me, then Peter got arrested and I was like "you son of a bitch, I'm in".

I think I kind of zoned out after Ben became Spider-Man, only catching up in 1998 when Astonishing Spider-Man (the book that collected the U.S books in the UK) got around to his exploits, and I enjoyed a great deal of it.

[exile001]

Yes, it got me into reading Spider-man comics.

Clone Conspiracy was fun and gave us Ben back, then he was redeemed in Spider-Geddon. Wells' run may be doing dodgy things but he'll come around to being good sooner or later. If nothing else we got JMD's excellent Ben Reilly: Spider-man book just last year.

[Minerboh]

Yes and despite the fact I can see the reasons that made the storyline so despised now, I still love it.

[IamnotJudasTraveller]

Did you enjoy reading the 90s Clone Saga while it was being published?

Absolutely.

As the saying goes, "history is written by the winners" and I get the impression Marvel threw the whole thing under the bus because they were ready for a very hard swerve from the word "go". They optimally wanted to separate Peter and MJ at the ending, when they decided to backtrack Ben being the original Peter Parker - because then they'd get that single Peter Parker the thing was engineered to give them. The writers, however, figured that'd be too much all at once and opted to keep them together at the end. But it was a clear sign that Marvel couldn't humor much of what was pitched: moving the characters forward - Aunt May has to die some day, Peter becomes a family man, etc. So it seems like the best way to 'steer the ship', as it were, would be to just regard the whole thing as a dumpster fire with no saving graces in it. Of course, given how much business/editorial literally wrecked the plotline so it could sell more, it doesn't help that there were many legitimate grievances to make that look like the case proper.

But it was pretty exciting a concept even if you look at it in hindsight. They wanted a massive shakeup and felt the books were in a huge slump ever since the robo-parents, and a massive shakeup it sure is! However, I am also of the opinion that the editorial meddling might have been a bit of a blessing in disguise, though it still cut two ways. It was due to the dragout that we got so many issues focusing on Peter and Ben's relationship and how well they played off each other, and how Scarlet Spider became its own entity. The way things were intended from day one, it was meant as some short burst storytelling done in six months. I believe this is why editorial has always had a very distinct outlook on Ben from the readers - we saw this guy stick around, develop his own identity, become comfortable in that own new skin of his, while editorial groaned every single time the big switcheroo was postponed and with how things meant more as a gag legitimately took off (like Scarlet Spider proper).

Editorial only ever humored Ben as the "actual Peter Parker that never was", while readers became attached to the "Ben that actually were" from all the years of storytelling. It explains why everytime editorial from that time hears about Ben being brought back in the Spidey titles in present day they just shrug most of the time - "he's not gonna be the real Peter, so why bother?".

That said, though, I myself found one of those 'slumps' in the saga mentioned above to be, besides the obvious (Maximum Clonage, etc), Ben's own claim as the sole web-slinger. The Scarlet Spider titles were literally rushed out the door by the business department since Ben was a hot commodity, and the storytelling definitely suffers there. And there was a lack of momentum when Ben became Spidey proper, at least from all the rollercoaster of subplots and schemes from the Jackal storyline. And I did feel like the books missed something with Peter out of the picture - Peter was more established, the status quo webslinger, with a family to come back to, and Ben was basically the newblood trying new things and trying to build a life to himself. I feel like they play each other too much to really have Ben working well outside Peter's periphery. This doesn't mean he'd have to be an eternal second wheel to Peter's book, but I do feel like he'd work best if it was a "Bat-family" type scenario where he's still around New York and they meet from time to time. That, at least, is the setup that hooked most Clone Saga readers back in the day, and I think we saw how well it still works with how much people legitimately enjoyed Beyond's team-up issues.

And I've droned on now, but hopefully I've answered that initial question!

[Vortex85]

Yes very much so. Back then I had no idea people were so upset by it.

I started reading Spider-Man comics a little before Ben Reilly took over and Peter was in the book so much I always figured they would bring him back as Spider-Man eventually. I also strangely had no problem with Ben Reilly dying even though I had followed his adventures for a year, I was way more confused that the baby never came back as I had assumed the baby would be found. Alas, that I was wrong about that.

[Alan2099]

I liked the clone saga for the most part, it had it's duds here and there but what period doesn't? I loved Kaine and Judas Traveler as villains and I feel trying to redeem or fix Kaine does a disservice to the character and robs him of his major hook. Likewise it's a shame how they had to retcon Traveler. I will admit that once Ben became the REAL Spider-man it dragged for a bit but his costume was great. he made a wonderful Scarlet Spider, just not as good a Spider-man.

If nothing else though, you had to hand it to them for their unpredictability.

Yes very much so. Back then I had no idea people were so upset by it.

I remember Wizard magazine loved mocking the Scarlet Spider, but then again, there was a lot of stuff they mocked for no reason.

[Vegan]

Surprised to see mostly yeses in this thread. I kind of assumed all of the Clone Saga love that’s started to spring up was with the benefit of hindsight. I assumed it was a very frustrating reading experience as it came out, but I loved reading it for the first time early last year.

[bob.schoonover]

Very much so at the beginning. All the Spidey books were kind of not amazing from the end of Maximum Carnage through the start of the Clone Saga (The Spider, robot parents and Pursuit, shuffling creative teams around, etc. - it wasn't awful or anything, but I don't think that year or so between the two events will make a top 20 list of "best times to be a Spider-man reader," and that's before debating the quality of Maximum Carnage or any of the non-JMD Spec titles before MC). But the little mystery of who the mysterious guy was kept me paying attention (I was a sufficiently young and casual as a reader that I'd never known about the original Clone Saga), and then the revelation blew my mind. Once the Clone Saga started in full, the creative teams were alternatingly stringing out a mystery a bit too much (with far too much editorial and marketing encouragement) and creating a huge cast of new villains (who have been under-used since) - Lady Ock, Stunner, Judas Traveller, Scrier, and Kaine, just to name a few - that was really exciting and fun to read. Kaine filled in a hole in the rogues gallery - as murderous as some but w/o Carnage's insanity - and Traveller and Scrier were an entirely different kind of enemy than you'd normally see Spidey confront. I went from reading just ASM + crossovers to picking up every single Spider-book to get the full experience.

The Gift, in particular, still stands out - Aunt May got sick in the books again about the same time my grandmother's cancer reappeared, and ASM 400 came out about two or three months before she died. Ben and Peter's grief was, needless to say, very easy to be in sync with and that book was a comfort. Even besides killing Aunt May, they killed Doc Ock, MJ was pregnant, Peter was in jail, and it was just a headspinning time to keep track of everything going on.

I eventually tired of the swerves - somewhere around when Gaunt appeared probably? - and stopped reading everything except ASM and asking around at the comic shop or flipping thru books to see what I was missing. Given how much money I was spending compared to how much my allowance was, it was probably time to cut back, anyway.

[Vegeta]

As a kid I liked the idea of two Spider-Men (more is always better!) But hated it when first Peter Parker was declared as the fake and then later when Ben had to give up the identity of Scarlet Spider because of an evil "Cyber Scarlet Spider" imposter destroying his reputation. It ran too long though (and with too many fake outs) and the Jackal felt like an annoying Joker wannabee. I also didn't like that they tried to build up the new Kaine villain as some ultimate bad ass by killing off a beloved classic Spidey foe (Doctor Octopus).
All the virtual reality stuff was really lame and just read like the writers were a bunch of old men trying to appear hip and youthful.
I didn't like Peter punching his wife (as a kid I assumed they were trying to validate Ben as the "real one" by doing this) and then trying to kill her in "Time Bomb."
Ben's run as Spider-Man seemed like a fresh start and I was originally on board but then they brought in another clone mystery with the skeleton found in the smokestack. That's when I completely walked away from comics until "Revelations."
Revisiting it as an adult I feel that it really doesn't hold up and understand why critics at the time considered it the worst Spider-Man story ever. (Until OMD.)

[Knightsilver]

I enjoyed it a lot actually. Personally...I think that all the major backlash against it wouldn't have happened if not for claiming Peter wasn't actually Peter. That was the deal breaker.

[Huntsman Spider]

As a kid I liked the idea of two Spider-Men (more is always better!) But hated it when first Peter Parker was declared as the fake and then later when Ben had to give up the identity of Scarlet Spider because of an evil "Cyber Scarlet Spider" imposter destroying his reputation. It ran too long though (and with too many fake outs) and the Jackal felt like an annoying Joker wannabee. I also didn't like that they tried to build up the new Kaine villain as some ultimate bad ass by killing off a beloved classic Spidey foe (Doctor Octopus).
All the virtual reality stuff was really lame and just read like the writers were a bunch of old men trying to appear hip and youthful.
I didn't like Peter punching his wife (as a kid I assumed they were trying to validate Ben as the "real one" by doing this) and then trying to kill her in "Time Bomb."
Ben's run as Spider-Man seemed like a fresh start and I was originally on board but then they brought in another clone mystery with the skeleton found in the smokestack. That's when I completely walked away from comics until "Revelations."
Revisiting it as an adult I feel that it really doesn't hold up and understand why critics at the time considered it the worst Spider-Man story ever. (Until OMD.)

As someone who was avidly watching VR Troopers (by the same people who created the cultural juggernaut that was Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers in that same era), the virtual reality stuff was my jam, however ridiculously overblown it turned out to be back then, and given serious contemporary corporate efforts at creating "the Metaverse," inspired by and named for the depiction of virtual reality in Neal Stephensen's Snow Crash, I think it's overdue for a real comeback. Stunner, in particular, looking back on her now, could work better as a metaphor or allegory for how people can get caught up in trying to present an idealized fantasy version of themselves in digital or virtual spaces, especially on social media, and Carolyn Trainer (the aforementioned Lady Doctor Octopus) could market the advanced VR technology she created as a means to legitimize herself in the corporate STEM sphere.

That said, I would generally agree with your points, especially concerning Doctor Octopus after Ock saved Peter's life from a virus and actually admitted to, in his own way, admiring and respecting him as a rival. Real gut punch there, having him killed like that and then brought back without that character growth/development . . . though not for the last time, either, as both runs of Superior Spider-Man could demonstrate.

[The Negative Zone]

I didn't enjoy it because I wasn't born yet!

[IamnotJudasTraveller]

Ben's run as Spider-Man seemed like a fresh start and I was originally on board but then they brought in another clone mystery with the skeleton found in the smokestack. That's when I completely walked away from comics until "Revelations."

I don't mean to bore you out of your mind with backstage minutiae, but the funny thing is that the skeleton was literally brought in to close the storyarc once and for all. Blood Brothers, which began almost right after the discovery in the smokestack, was meant to off Ben (yes, this early in his tenure) and reestablish Peter as the original.
However, there was an editorial shakeup and the new EiC didn't want it to "conclude so soon", wanting to make an event out of it and thinking it'd get in the way of Onslaught (maybe if they did a line-wide relaunch for it, I guess? Onslaught was still a few months away).
So I think it's pretty damn humurous that "exactly what they wanted to conclude everything already" literally became the last nail in the coffin for readers out there.

[PCN24454]

I didn't enjoy it because I wasn't born yet!

Same.

I didn’t really love it, but I didn’t hate it either. The fact that I didn’t have to wait weeks or months between issues definitely helped my impression of it though it was definitely too meaningless.