Green Arrow by Joshua Williamson and Sean Izaakse

[Jon Clark]

I actually appreciate that. A lot of people like to dismiss Johns's retcon by saying "Hal was possessed so he wasn't responsible - what a cop out." But that's not what was happening. Hal was still culpable for letting Parallax influence him, and it happened over the course of years, so it was never that cut and dried.

My problem with this is just how far Hal went while calling himself Parallax. While Johns' undid the major deaths, I don't recall anything retconning Hal's belief that he killed the Guardians and his fellow Corps members at the time it happened. So if you can't just blame the Fear Creature for that then Hal is still an attempted mass murderer on some level.

If I was Kilowog and Parallax "killed" me the way we saw in GL #50 I couldn't trust Hal again if i believed anything but that Hal wasn't in control.

[j9ac9k]

My problem with this is just how far Hal went while calling himself Parallax. While Johns' undid the major deaths, I don't recall anything retconning Hal's belief that he killed the Guardians and his fellow Corps members at the time it happened. So if you can't just blame the Fear Creature for that then Hal is still an attempted mass murderer on some level.

If I was Kilowog and Parallax "killed" me the way we saw in GL #50 I couldn't trust Hal again if i believed anything but that Hal wasn't in control.

Firstly, Hal never killed the Guardians - they just up and died rather than try to stop Hal for some reason. Secondly, I think the reason that it's ambiguous is why it was interesting. (in hindsight) And that's why Hal sacrificing himself, then being the Spectre, and the years he spend trying to re-earn that trust is important. Some buy it, some still don't. I kinda liken it to someone being an addict. There's a certain level of responsibility that we place on the addict, but you either believe that person suffered a disease and can forgive them for the stuff they did then once they're sober or you don't. (might not be the best example, but it's the closest I can think of that's at all relatable)

[j9ac9k]

My problem with this is just how far Hal went while calling himself Parallax. While Johns' undid the major deaths, I don't recall anything retconning Hal's belief that he killed the Guardians and his fellow Corps members at the time it happened. So if you can't just blame the Fear Creature for that then Hal is still an attempted mass murderer on some level.

If I was Kilowog and Parallax "killed" me the way we saw in GL #50 I couldn't trust Hal again if i believed anything but that Hal wasn't in control.

Firstly, Hal never killed the Guardians - they just up and died rather than try to stop Hal for some reason. Secondly, I think the reason that it's ambiguous is why it was interesting. (in hindsight) And that's why Hal sacrificing himself, then being the Spectre, and the years he spend trying to re-earn that trust is important. Some buy it, some still don't. I kinda liken it to someone being an addict. There's a certain level of responsibility that we place on the addict, but you either believe that person suffered a disease and can forgive them for the stuff they did then once they're sober or you don't. (I would say Hal's even less responsible than that since Parallax's infection was against his will, so it might not be the best example, but it's the closest I can think of that's at all relatable)

[Hypo]

Green Arrow #5 Preview
Writer: Joshua Williamson
Artists: Sean Izaakse and Phil Hester

[Refrax5]

My problem with this is just how far Hal went while calling himself Parallax. While Johns' undid the major deaths, I don't recall anything retconning Hal's belief that he killed the Guardians and his fellow Corps members at the time it happened. So if you can't just blame the Fear Creature for that then Hal is still an attempted mass murderer on some level.

If I was Kilowog and Parallax "killed" me the way we saw in GL #50 I couldn't trust Hal again if i believed anything but that Hal wasn't in control.

It's not either/or, I don't think. Hal isn't entirely innocent, but he was being influenced and pushed to do the things he did. There's a part of him that wanted to, but he also wasn't in his right mind. The creature was warping his thoughts subtly. So, he may not be fully innocent, but he's not as responsible as it originally seemed. He was essentially being driven insane by an outside influence.

Once he's freed from the Spectre, his soul is being pulled towards Heaven, so he's obviously redeemed himself somewhat from whatever he's guilty of.

[Frontier]

Green Arrow #5 Preview
Writer: Joshua Williamson
Artists: Sean Izaakse and Phil Hester

The Arrow Car, Boxing Glove Arrow, and the Arrowcave !

[sifighter]

Not gonna lie did not expect that twist that happened at all. Raises a whole hell of a lot of questions about this run though.

[Frontier]

spoilers:

Boxing Glove Arrow! The Arrowcar! The Arrowcave! I see Roy and Jade still get along swimmingly. I like Dinah using a whistle Canary Cry to get them to calm down. Dinah and her magically disappearing fishnets. Were they drawn at all in this issue? So who could be behind the Ollie robot? Sounds like this is less an Ollie problem and more somebody trying to screw with Ollie. I'm not sure how real it all is but the old Ollie with old Roy and Dinah was trippy. And Dinah's jacket being the trophy case. Also, I spotted Mia's costume! Speaking of Mia, Ollie heading back to circa-Quiver to battle a bunch of other timeline Green Arrow doppelgangers alongside classic Ollie with Phil Hester art sure is something.

end of spoilers

[j9ac9k]

Hmm... Ollie's greatest enemy is himself, so that part tracks...

[Mantis-Ray]

Oh dang thats a big twist.

spoilers:

So its not an older Ollie keeping himself from his family, but an actual malevolent force. The only question is which of his enemies is pulling this.

end of spoilers

[j9ac9k]

Ollie's train of thought, "I never told anyone..." leads to a fairly specific way his "enemy" obtained information about Ollie though, doesn't it? Because if this person was just able to follow Ollie around or keep tabs in some way, they'd know what Ollie had been up to, regardless of whether or not he told anyone.

[Ascended]

It's not either/or, I don't think. Hal isn't entirely innocent, but he was being influenced and pushed to do the things he did.

Yeah, Hal's not exactly innocent here, but he's not guilty either. Parallax pushed him to take actions he otherwise wouldn't have, pushed him to further extremes than he'd reach on his own. But it all came from Hal, he didn't do anything that a part of him didn't already want to do.

I'm not a Hal fan, at all. He's my least favorite of the core 4 GLs. But the saga of him trying to earn redemption and forgiveness from his peers? That was some damn fine comics. I loved his dynamic with Bruce back then, when they were really open about their animosity. I loved the group of Lanterns who...survived the Battery's destruction, I think it was? Or ones that Hal left for dead after fighting maybe? Anyway, they had more reason than most to hate Hal, watching him slowly make peace with them was a really satisfying story.

Haven't been to the LCS in weeks, so I'm behind on the new issue. But it sounds interesting. Maybe I'll make a trip this weekend....

[Johnny]

Yeah, Hal's not exactly innocent here, but he's not guilty either. Parallax pushed him to take actions he otherwise wouldn't have, pushed him to further extremes than he'd reach on his own. But it all came from Hal, he didn't do anything that a part of him didn't already want to do.

I'm not a Hal fan, at all. He's my least favorite of the core 4 GLs. But the saga of him trying to earn redemption and forgiveness from his peers? That was some damn fine comics. I loved his dynamic with Bruce back then, when they were really open about their animosity. I loved the group of Lanterns who...survived the Battery's destruction, I think it was? Or ones that Hal left for dead after fighting maybe? Anyway, they had more reason than most to hate Hal, watching him slowly make peace with them was a really satisfying story.

Haven't been to the LCS in weeks, so I'm behind on the new issue. But it sounds interesting. Maybe I'll make a trip this weekend....

No I'm pretty sure that no part of Hal actually wanted to slaughter the GLC.

[Frontier]

No I'm pretty sure that no part of Hal actually wanted to slaughter the GLC.

And kill Kilowog.

[Hypo]

Green Arrow #6 Preview
Writer: Joshua Williamson
Artists: Sean Izaakse, Phil Hester and Trevor Hairsine