De-aging Tech, Original Cast, and new D+ shows: Yay or Nay?

[Ascended]

Back in Mando season 2 when Luke showed up to save everyone, once we stopped geeking out I suspect all of us had the same thought: how much of this can we actually get? And when Hayden Christianson gave a stellar performance in Kenobi we probably all thought it again.

With the de-aging technology Disney is getting so good with, how likely is it that they try to give Vader, Luke, Lando, or some other original cast member a show of their own? I'd think it's probably still too expensive a technology to use for an entire season and lead character but that won't be the case forever. Hell, for all I know it's already possible.

So is it a good idea? Is it a chance to explore characters during their prime, even though the actors are decades older? Or is it kicking open a door best left closed, and those characters should be left to their retirement so new faces can rise?

Myself, I'd kill for a Luke show. It's been great seeing a "proper" Luke after the sequels did him dirty, Mark Hammil seems like he's enjoyed exploring this era of Luke's life, and if the de-aging tech can be squeezed into the budget I think it could be a big hit. Plus Luke could offer a chance to explore the New Republic from somewhere that isn't the outer rim.

Dunno if this tech is even at the point where it could handle a lead character for 8 episodes, but the improvements between Mando season 2 and Boba Fett were noticeable, and presumably it's improved even more now, a year or so later.

[thwhtGuardian]

If the actors (or their estates)are properly compensated for the use of their image I'd be okay with it.

[Tobei Miyake]

The technology will eventually get there.

From a moral or ethical standpoint I have no issue with it.

From a creative or storytelling standpoint though it feels a little bit limiting to me because you're mainly banking on nostalgia. Because if you have no nostalgia for Luke Skywalker do you really care?

If they created a movie with The Beatles, would many people outside of Beatles fans really care? Perhaps not.

Then again, Bohemian Rhapsody (Freddie Mercury and Queen, and not as popular as The Beatles) made $900 million at the box office. So who is to say.

When it comes to Star Wars, and even though I grew up with Luke Skywalker and thought he was cooler than Superman or Batman, I have no real desire to see a de-aged Luke Skywalker series.

Of course, I thought Rian Johnson handled him fine in The Last Jedi.

You think what? I'm gonna walk out with a laser sword and face down the whole First Order? What did you think was going to happen here?

That worked fine to me. I had no problems with any of what they did, because I hadn't built Luke Skywalker up to be some Jedi god in my mind. He did (to me) about what Obi-Wan Kenobi did in A New Hope. That was his role more or less.

I'm getting too old for this sort of thing.

I didn't really want Han, Luke and Leia to come back for the sequels, because I knew it wasn't going to go well. Too much time had gone by. If George Lucas has done a sequel trilogy instead of the prequel trilogy in 1999, then I probably would have felt different. But after 30 years I didn't expect much from the original trio and didn't get much from them.

Mark Hamill even said that George Lucas had told him if they didn't want to come back that they would have simply written them out, so obviously nothing was hinging on them coming back and it felt that way.

That all being said, I did get a kick out of seeing the CGI Leia at the end of Rogue One. But I personally would have no great desire to see a Leia series. That cameo was enough.

Ultimately it comes down to the subject matter. There was some James Dean project a few years ago that was talked about. No real interest in that, but I'm sure I could think of something that would interest me.

I would be more interested in seeing them create an "artificial actor" if you will than de-aging an existing actor or one from the past.

[Jokerz79]

I don't think they're anywhere near the level it would take to be able to do it for an entire series and for it to look realistic.

Even Tarkin and Luke in Mandalorian had a bit of Uncanny Valley. Admittedly Luke was way better in the Book of Boba Fett, but that was a limited appearance not series regular.

But personally I would have preferred a recast with like Charles Dance for Rogue One.

As for a Luke series Mark Hamill is a prolific voice actor why not animation? Clone Wars, Rebels, Resistance, Tales of the Jedi, & Bad Batch are all Canon.

[bat22]

The problem isn't getting to use the original cast for the characters.

If the Sequel Trilogy has taught us anything, the problem is taking the characters - even played by the original actors - and sticking them in a garbage universe made by garbage creators.

[Jokerz79]

The problem isn't getting to use the original cast for the characters.

If the Sequel Trilogy has taught us anything, the problem is taking the characters - even played by the original actors - and sticking them in a garbage universe made by garbage creators.

Prequels taught us that lesson long before the Sequels.

[thwhtGuardian]

Prequels taught us that lesson long before the Sequels.

Eh, the prequels for all their flaws are no where near as boring as the sequels.

[Jokerz79]

Eh, the prequels for all their flaws are no where near as boring as the sequels.

Opposite.

I genuinely like TFA.

I dislike TLJ.

& while I admit TROS is a mess I can still sit thru it because I like Poe, Finn, Rey, and BB8.

I find watching the Prequels a chore. Mostly because I really want to smack Anakin not because he's evil, but because I find him annoying.

I love Rogue One, Andor, the Mandalorian and animated shows like Clone Wars, Rebels, and Bad Batch. But I will admit the "Skywalker Saga" really should have stayed a Trilogy neither the Prequels or Sequels did it any favors.

[bat22]

Prequels taught us that lesson long before the Sequels.

Rebels and Mando are the only properties that have sustained my fanfare for SW.

Lucas fumbled the ball a number of times but the Expanded Universe was always there to pick it up and score. I was happy when I heard that Disney had purchased SW. I wasn't even nostalgic over having Han, Luke, and Leia back. I was more hyped that Moses from Attack the Block would be a major player in the new trilogy. I figured we'd be getting real quality directing and storytelling. I'd never have believed that the Sequel Trilogy would make the Prequels look good in comparison. For all of Lucas's shortcomings, he was much better at plotting and building the galaxy for the EU to flesh out than the "geniuses" at Disney who gave us watered-down knock-offs of what came before, all while snubbing the previous films' groundwork for their own meandering direction and thin logic; and when the replacement EU has only that dreck to work with (or toward)...

That's why it doesn't matter how convincing a facsimile they can make of old, de-aged characters when they're treated to such a rubbish future.

[Ascended]

Eh, the prequels for all their flaws are no where near as boring as the sequels.

Really? I feel the exact opposite. I think the only thing the prequels can claim over the sequels is the quality of the overall plot. The manipulation, corruption, and events that brought the Republic down is a pretty great story, when you look at the big picture. But to appreciate it, you need to ignore all the bad acting (from damn near everyone) in the prequels, the dialogue that's even worse, questionable pacing/editing, questionable character choices and actions, and plot details that just don't make any sense (like the Republic and Jedi both just happily accepting a mystery army of clones who's donor is known to be working for the enemy. Did nobody question that?).

The overall story in the sequels is a disjointed and idiotic mess at best, insulting and offensive to what came before at worst, but in almost every other way I find them better than the prequels. I can at least sit down and get through the sequels, but the only prequel I can manage to watch entirely is RotS. Not that I watch either of them very often.

Anyway, back to the topic....

Someone suggested letting Hammil do a animated Luke show, and I honestly don't get why they haven't tried that. Back when the Clone Wars cartoon was first getting big I thought they might do a OT show as a follow-up, and I've always wondered why nothing like that ever materialized. Was Hammil just too busy with the Batman cartoon or what?

I wouldn't say no to a Luke cartoon, though I'd prefer live-action even if the de-aging tech is a little rough around the edges. Honestly I've found that I kinda like the cgi in Star Wars to be just a little bit janky; it fits the overall "rusted, hard used, and half broken" aesthetic of the setting. Probably still too expensive for a whole show but I could be wrong, this stuff has become remarkably cheap and I feel like a careful application of practical effects elsewhere could open up the budget enough, possibly maybe, for de-aging Luke. Probably not, but man we must be awfully close to it being affordable.

And then there's Vader. When they said Hayden was returning for Kenobi I was not impressed. Dude did a bad job acting in the prequels. But I'll be damned if he didn't just chew up every scene he had in Kenobi and I found myself wanting more. I used to say that Vader was a case of "less is more" and the more they developed and used him, the less impressive he was. But now, I'd absolutely be down if Hayden returned for a Vader show. And there's no de-aging required there, just traditional make-up, unless they do flashbacks to Anakin's youth. And did I hear correctly that Disney bought the rights to James Earl Jones' voice? A Vader series is totally achievable, I think, even if a Luke show isn't.

I would have liked to see more of Leia, would have liked to see her get a show, but with Carrie gone it's not something I want now. Even if Disney could replicate her voice and face, it just wouldn't be the same. With Hammil, they have to paint over him completely but at least he's still in there y'know?

Not part of my original question/post, but what do people think about re-casting if de-aging isn't a viable option? I would say I'm not in favor of it....but I've seen some fan art of Sebastian Stan (Bucky from the MCU) as Luke and I'll be damned if he doesn't look perfect for the part. And the guy they had play Lando in the Solo film (hell is his name? Glover?) was pretty damn amazing too. I think I'd tentatively accept re-casting the originals, but I'd demand perfect replacement actors.

[Zero Hunter]

Prequels taught us that lesson long before the Sequels.

The Prequels were some great ideas with some bad execution. The Sequels were bad ideas with even worse execution.

[thwhtGuardian]

The Prequels were some great ideas with some bad execution. The Sequels were bad ideas with even worse execution.

That was my feeling.

[Jokerz79]

The Prequels were some great ideas with some bad execution. The Sequels were bad ideas with even worse execution.

Nah they were bad ideas. Around 2:30 AM on May 19th, 1999, me and my friends were in the theater parking lot debating how bad the film was and I was trying to defend it like an abuse spouse saying, "The next 2 will be good". Then ATOC happened and that broke me that was my TLJ it was so bad I refused to see ROTS in theaters.

The Sequels aren't good TFA is decent, TLJ is garbage, and TROS is a mess thanks to TLJ, but that doesn't make the Prequels good or superior.

There are only two things I can say are good about the Prequels the John Williams music and they at least had a plan but given what it was that could be seen as worst given that trainwreck was actually planned.

[thwhtGuardian]

Nah they were bad ideas. Around 2:30 AM on May 19th, 1999, me and my friends were in the theater parking lot debating how bad the film was and I was trying to defend it like an abuse spouse saying, "The next 2 will be good". Then ATOC happened and that broke me that was my TLJ it was so bad I refused to see ROTS in theaters.

The Sequels aren't good TFA is decent, TLJ is garbage, and TROS is a mess thanks to TLJ, but that doesn't make the Prequels good or superior.

There are only two things I can say are good about the Prequels the John Williams music and they at least had a plan but given what it was that could be seen as worst given that trainwreck was actually planned.

See I thought everything about the Force Awakens feel off the rail the second Poe made the bad joke about being interrogated and never recovered from there. I saw the second three months after it came out at a cinema pub and I only saw the the third when it hit Disney +...and only then after it had already been there for a while. There was zero redeeming value to the sequels for me.

The prequels though full of stilted dialogue and questionable performances from otherwise decent actors atleast gave a wider scope to the Star Wars universe and had plots that didn't feel derivative of the OT. On top of that they gave us the Clone Wars cartoon and now Badbatch both of which are awesome...the sequels didn't expand anything.

But that's all off topic and I apologize.

For me, the only sticking point to the deaging technology are the ethical questions it raises. Creatively, if there is a story they feel deserves telling that needs a young Luke Skywalker and they think the technology is there to do it live action then that's all well and fine. I might not like the story, or I might love it but the use of the technology in and of itself wouldn't sway me one way or the other...so long as the actors in question(or their estates) are compensated for the use of their likenesses.

I think California has a law about digital likenesses already but I'm not sure how in depth it is industry wide and if it includes consent. Like, I understand estates have to be paid to use an actor's likeness but is it just a fee they have to pay or does that person or estate have a right of refusal?

[bat22]

See I thought everything about the Force Awakens feel off the rail the second Poe made the bad joke about being interrogated and never recovered from there. I saw the second three months after it came out at a cinema pub and I only saw the the third when it hit Disney +...and only then after it had already been there for a while. There was zero redeeming value to the sequels for me.

Lucas spent a considerable about of time and effort with the EU building up the creation of the first Death Star, and the second Death Star was still a work in progress in ROTJ. So it was very eye-rolling and head-shaking for me when Disney SW rolled out their Death Star that was over 5x larger than the first, supposedly built within the original heroes' middle-to-late adulthood by the remnants of the Empire.

That and early in the film seeing Finn enthusiastically woo-ing as he's mowing down his fellow Imperial, I mean, "First Order" comrades and child soldiers.