De-aging Tech, Original Cast, and new D+ shows: Yay or Nay?

[BeastieRunner]

Didn't James Earl Jones do this with his voice?

[thwhtGuardian]

Didn't James Earl Jones do this with his voice?

Yeah, it was completely AI as were the lines by Luke in Book of Boba Fett. The Mandalorian was similar, only with Mark originally recording the dialog so that they could compare the inflections and pacing of the AI's dialogue with Mark's own.

I'm assuming both were appropriately compensated and in which case I'm totally fine with it but the technology does have a gray area to it. There are a lot of recordings from say JFK for instance, if you wanted to have a fictional JFK appear in your movie and have him speak lines would you need the Kennedy family's blessings? Would they need to be compensated? Are there laws demanding that?

[Ascended]

But that's all off topic and I apologize.

We're all guilty. And I don't really expect to start/read a thread here that doesn't bitch about the sequels and/or prequels at least a little bit. Honestly I'd have been worried if nobody mentioned it at all!

For me, the only sticking point to the deaging technology are the ethical questions it raises.

I think California has a law about digital likenesses already but I'm not sure how in depth it is industry wide and if it includes consent.

My concern isn't with actors not getting paid or estate approval or anything. My concern is how it'll impact the spread of misinformation. Some idiot could make a deepfake video of Biden or trump or the pope or some other political/cultural figure eating a baby, and people will believe it's real. Drop the video around election time and you could change the course of history. Even after it's proven to be cgi, a lot of folks will still think it's legit...if they hear about the proof at all; a video of POTUS caught being a cannibal will spread around the web a lot faster and further than proof that he's not.

That's what is scary about it, if you ask me. As for the legality of it, far as I know it's largely a gray area that doesn't have much law or precedence to it yet, since the technology is so new. California seems to be further along with this than other states of course (Hollywood), but even that seems to be mostly just building from established privacy/entertainment laws we've had on the books for a century or more, and I don't think those laws as they stand are capable of covering something like this de-aging/deepfake technology. But we'll see how things shake out, as incredible as this stuff is, and as potentially terrible as it could be in the wrong hands, it's actually just part of the larger misinformation plague; we deal with the root problem and deepfake won't be as much of a concern.

Didn't James Earl Jones do this with his voice?

I think so yeah. And that's pretty amazing I think. We could keep hearing that man's voice forever and as far as I'm concerned that's a gift to humanity. Which is kinda the opposite side of the "scary deepfake" conversation; how nice would it have been if this had been around for James Dean or Marilyn Munroe or Brando, or any of the other great actors from any given generation? We know Kurt Cobain had songs written (or half-written) that we never heard before he died. If we had this technology thirty years ago, we could have heard those songs. Same for Lennon, or Hendrix, or whoever.

As long as the estates get paid properly and the talent is treated with respect (no pop music from Cobain's electronic ghost, thanks) this technology could be the most culturally enriching development since the creation of the world wide web. I mean, we're sitting here having a serious conversation about the possibility of getting an entire show of Luke Skywalker in his prime; no re-casting, no cartoon, the actual Mark Hammil made young again, forever, by the magic of tv. That was impossible just a few years ago, now it's not only possible, it's been done, and a whole show is just a question of cost (which will stop being a question at all very quickly as the tech is refined and made cheaper). I don't know how anyone could fail to be excited by that prospect.

[Zero Hunter]

Nah they were bad ideas. Around 2:30 AM on May 19th, 1999, me and my friends were in the theater parking lot debating how bad the film was and I was trying to defend it like an abuse spouse saying, "The next 2 will be good". Then ATOC happened and that broke me that was my TLJ it was so bad I refused to see ROTS in theaters.

The Sequels aren't good TFA is decent, TLJ is garbage, and TROS is a mess thanks to TLJ, but that doesn't make the Prequels good or superior.

There are only two things I can say are good about the Prequels the John Williams music and they at least had a plan but given what it was that could be seen as worst given that trainwreck was actually planned.

See I think the main problem with the prequels was no one was around to tell George no. He was surrounded by yes men. He needed someone around to say stuff like "You know George young Anakin is good but maybe instead of him being 9 how about we make him say 15 or so" or "instead of going for a laugh here why not just let the scene play normal George?". That is what the prequels needed someone people for George to bounce his ideas off to smooth them out.

[Timothy Hunter]

Absolutely not.

[Ascended]

Care to elaborate?

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Back in Mando season 2 when Luke showed up to save everyone, once we stopped geeking out I suspect all of us had the same thought: how much of this can we actually get? And when Hayden Christianson gave a stellar performance in Kenobi we probably all thought it again.

With the de-aging technology Disney is getting so good with, how likely is it that they try to give Vader, Luke, Lando, or some other original cast member a show of their own? I'd think it's probably still too expensive a technology to use for an entire season and lead character but that won't be the case forever. Hell, for all I know it's already possible.

So is it a good idea? Is it a chance to explore characters during their prime, even though the actors are decades older? Or is it kicking open a door best left closed, and those characters should be left to their retirement so new faces can rise?

Myself, I'd kill for a Luke show. It's been great seeing a "proper" Luke after the sequels did him dirty, Mark Hammil seems like he's enjoyed exploring this era of Luke's life, and if the de-aging tech can be squeezed into the budget I think it could be a big hit. Plus Luke could offer a chance to explore the New Republic from somewhere that isn't the outer rim.

Dunno if this tech is even at the point where it could handle a lead character for 8 episodes, but the improvements between Mando season 2 and Boba Fett were noticeable, and presumably it's improved even more now, a year or so later.

Nay as I'm just bored with the Skywalker saga and I rather get new stuff like the High Republic.

Plus deaging tech can be creepy so I rather recast the actor. I'm fine with Alden Einrech as well as the internet fancasted Sébastien Stan as Luke so I'm cool with using him. Although Stan is also fancast as Ben Skywalker from the 90s books so that works too.

[Ascended]

I'd be fine with re-casting too. Sebastian Stan as Luke is something I'd be pretty happy about, I've seen some photoshop fan art of him in the role that just blows me away. But the thing I'm asking is; with this new tech do we even *need* recasting now? I mean, maybe probably yes, right this very moment, because the tech is probably still too expensive and persnickety to do a whole show with. But in a year, or five?

Real interesting possibilities opening up here. Scary ones, but also interesting.

[Ascended]

So the other day I saw a report claiming that Disney is looking into doing some "flashback specials" with the original cast. Didn't have a chance to read the article entirely, but it sounded like they were looking at using the de-aging tech and doing one hour stand alone stories, kind of like Marvel's Werewolf By Night and Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special.

If that's true, then it kind of tells us where the technology is, as far as budgets go. They can afford an hour of content but a full season is likely still too expensive.

If it's true, then I'm also pretty excited for it. I didn't really expect to get entire shows dedicated to showing the original cast in their primes, but this would be more than enough to satisfy me.

[ChrisIII]

Harrison is using some of the technology for Indiana Jones, although according to him it also uses some deleted footage from the original Indiana Jones trilogy.

Some of the Carrie Footage from ROS I think was taken from some of TFA (and maybe a bit of TLJ?) deleted material/alternate takes as well.

Speaking of which the young Luke and Leia footage from ROS was pretty poor. Not the sword fighting but when they flipped open the helmets, as it's quite clear it's just cut and pasted OT footage of Luke on Dagobah and Leia upset about Luke on Endor (The night in the Ewok village scene).

[ChrisIII]

Lucas spent a considerable about of time and effort with the EU building up the creation of the first Death Star, and the second Death Star was still a work in progress in ROTJ. So it was very eye-rolling and head-shaking for me when Disney SW rolled out their Death Star that was over 5x larger than the first, supposedly built within the original heroes' middle-to-late adulthood by the remnants of the Empire.

That and early in the film seeing Finn enthusiastically woo-ing as he's mowing down his fellow Imperial, I mean, "First Order" comrades and child soldiers.

Starkiller was actually built into a planet (Illum), not something built from scratch. It also was sort of already being used as Kyber material for the Death Stars as well-the trench into which the weapon goes is already in by the time of the Fallen Order games.

[j9ac9k]

So the other day I saw a report claiming that Disney is looking into doing some "flashback specials" with the original cast. Didn't have a chance to read the article entirely, but it sounded like they were looking at using the de-aging tech and doing one hour stand alone stories, kind of like Marvel's Werewolf By Night and Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special.

Even if the tech were capable of it, I'd rather they just do that as an animated special. Having them resemble the originals as high-end (better than "Bad Batch") animated characters as long as they hit the brakes before getting into the uncanny valley and duplicating their voices would be fun to me, but trying to do it "live action" would be odd to me because we all know it's not real. I get doing Princess Leia for "Rogue One" and I can appreciate Luke in "Mandalorian" for one scene, but Luke in "Boba Fett" was not great. I wouldn't want a whole show with just fake people.

[ChrisIII]

Yeah, something about the AI or whatever they're using for Mark at least doesn't sound quite right.

There's been some pretty good Han voice actors or Harrison soundalikes like AJ Locascio (Lego Skywalker saga) and Anthony Ingruber over the years.

[Ascended]

Even if the tech were capable of it, I'd rather they just do that as an animated special. Having them resemble the originals as high-end (better than "Bad Batch") animated characters as long as they hit the brakes before getting into the uncanny valley and duplicating their voices would be fun to me, but trying to do it "live action" would be odd to me because we all know it's not real. I get doing Princess Leia for "Rogue One" and I can appreciate Luke in "Mandalorian" for one scene, but Luke in "Boba Fett" was not great. I wouldn't want a whole show with just fake people.

It still strikes me as really weird that we've never had an animated show for the original cast. We had Clone Wars, and some sequel-era cartoon I guess, but nothing really for Luke, Han, and Leia. Which is weird.

Me, I'd be down for hour-long specials with de-aged cgi versions of the cast. But I'm not super big on cartoons so I have a bias; I'd rather the slightly weird cgi than full blown animation.