Justice Society of America #2 Review/Discussion

[MajorHoy]

This is what I was responding to:

You claimed that it hasn't really addressed anything; I've pointed out that it has. I get that you don't like the way the book is developing thus far; and that's fine: not everything has to be to everyone's liking. But it's factually incorrect to portray it as not addressing anything about the JSA's history.

But we still don't know if it will be their "history" or if it is still in the process of potentially changing because Helena is bouncing around in time and Per Degaton is messing around with time.

I'm waiting until after this story is done before I'll accept things as part of "history" because it can keep changing at any moment when people are messin' around with time.

[Dataweaver]

I will be surprised if anything established during these initial issues gets invalidated, with the possible exception of the future Helena comes from; and even there, I suspect that it will remain as a Hypertimeline that will remain available to visit for a while to come.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Too many damn additions, and we DON'T know if / how much of it will still apply when all is said and done with Huntress and Per Degaton bopping back and forth in time!

We really didn't need a "Justice Society Dark" <gad, what an awful name!> and don't know why Salem the Witch Girl was needed (and why she gets so much page-time before other previously established members show up).

It's not that I dislike some of this, it's just where the hell is the rest of the Justice Society in a book called Justice Society of America?!?

I figured Johns is setting Salem Girl up as a suspect for Khalid’s murder and that's something he will play with in the next issue.

I'm not sure about JSD.

[Walter West]

So the general consensus is that Geoffrey Johns is screwing up? What else is new.

There are aspects of Johns that I'm not too fussy on, like removing Wally West, bring him back to be frozen in a one-off, and basically treating the character like crap because he wanted Barry Allen back. There's also all the Stargirl stuff. I know it's a tribute to his sister, but enough is enough. She replaced Jack Knight.

By Johns' storytelling logic, Stargirl should be set aside, then killed off with little fanfare (maybe frozen to death like Wally), then replaced with the original Ted Knight for a long time, and then just marginalize Stargirl while replacing her with the original Starman. He's been gone long enough, and a Crisis story would be a great place to get all this done.

Ted Knight - Rebirth anyone?

And can we make Stargirl non-white for no reason? Or make another Stargirl, who intentionally detracts from the original Stargirl, and keep inserting her into plots ad nauseam?

All joking aside, I started out ready to go to bat for Johns after your blithe putdown. He's a talented writer even though he's not perfect.

I GOT IT!!!! She loses an arm, gets hooked on drugs, and beats a bad guy with a dead cat or bag of gerbils. Cry for Justice - Stargirl Rebirth.

Final scene clincher: a flashback shows that she used to be an East German shotputter. She was also male at birth, but identifies as cabbage. I should have been a writer for DC.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

There are aspects of Johns that I'm not too fussy on, like removing Wally West, bring him back to be frozen in a one-off, and basically treating the character like crap because he wanted Barry Allen back. There's also all the Stargirl stuff. I know it's a tribute to his sister, but enough is enough. She replaced Jack Knight.

By Johns' storytelling logic, Stargirl should be set aside, then killed off with little fanfare (maybe frozen to death like Wally), then replaced with the original Ted Knight for a long time, and then just marginalize Stargirl while replacing her with the original Starman. He's been gone long enough, and a Crisis story would be a great place to get all this done.

How much of Wally's mistreatment was Johns tho? Because he did do a lengthy run with Wally. I figured most of Wally's mistreatment post new 52 was Didio.

[Dataweaver]

How much of Wally's mistreatment was Johns tho? Because he did do a lengthy run with Wally. I figured most of Wally's mistreatment post new 52 was Didio.

Pretty much, yes. Most of the stuff in Walter West's rant can be attributed to Didio, not Johns.

As for Courtney Whitmore replacing Jack Knight, that was done with Robinson's blessing; and it was arguably initiated by Robinson. He saw Courtney Whitmore as a grown-up Starwoman in Sins of Youth and loved the idea; and he was already planning on retiring Jack Knight around issue #80, so the idea of making Courtney Jack's successor was a perfect fit. Johns' only roles in what happened were portraying Courtney as Starwoman in a one-off that caught Robinson's eye, and having Courtney change her codename from the Star Spangled Kid to Stargirl after Jack retired.

[Johnrevenge]

How much of Wally's mistreatment was Johns tho? Because he did do a lengthy run with Wally. I figured most of Wally's mistreatment post new 52 was Didio.

Yeah, Didio is the main culprit of all the crap in Wally West.

[MajorHoy]

I figured Johns is setting Salem Girl up as a suspect for Khalid’s murder and that's something he will play with in the next issue.

And all that is very important because . . . it's something that happened IN THE FUTURE and may not ever really happen when all is said and done since it's IN THE FUTURE?

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

And all that is very important because . . . it's something that happened IN THE FUTURE and may not ever really happen when all is said and done since it's IN THE FUTURE?

Not for Helena as it happened before she started traveling in time. So there is tension in her meeting a younger Khalid.

[thwhtGuardian]

And all that is very important because . . . it's something that happened IN THE FUTURE and may not ever really happen when all is said and done since it's IN THE FUTURE?

It's important to the story being told even if it doesn't effect the "real" world outside this particular story.

I'm not a fan of the time travel aspect myself so far and would much rather a straight forward JSA book...but it's a part of the story being told and despite not being what I expected out of a book with JSA as the title I do find the mystery engaging so far. Mileage may vary on whether you find it engaging of course but at this point it seems like beating a dead horse to lament that it isn't what you were expecting or wanting.

[MajorHoy]

It's important to the story being told even if it doesn't effect the "real" world outside this particular story.

I'm not a fan of the time travel aspect myself so far and would much rather a straight forward JSA book...but it's a part of the story being told and despite not being what I expected out of a book with JSA as the title I do find the mystery engaging so far. Mileage may vary on whether you find it engaging of course but at this point it seems like beating a dead horse to lament that it isn't what you were expecting or wanting.

There are things I'm intrigued by in this series, but Johns wasting all this time on introducing his new pet creations and a "future" that may-or-may-not still exist after the "present-day" JSA encounters Per Degaton instead of actually having the "present-day" JSA show up in the damn story so far (beyond possibly on the covers that have little to do with what's inside) is beyond frustrating.

The New Golden Age should have been the place for the set-up to happen to this overall story. Now Johns should be using at least half (or even a quarter?) of the current issues to showcase at least who's in the "present-day" JSA.