BOOYAH!!!: Cyborg/Victor Stone Appreciation 2023

[marhawkman]

I agree. Or at the very least, giving him a jacket and a pair of pants alone would have cut some of the spending.

But noooo we had to see the CGI metal mess in it's full glory:



^How the hell does something from 2021 managed to look more outdated than something from 2003:



Even with the face plate, the 2003 design still looks fresh and modern.

Also, surprised that neither the comics nor any adaptations have ever really tried adapting the blue circuitry from the show. That was always one of my favorite design elements.

I prefer the 80s version... it's so clean and novel.... and.... why do later versions look like downgrades?

[Alan2099]

Cartoon Cyborg is sleek and hightech looking.

Movie Cyborg looks like he was built ina cave with a box of scrap parts.

[Ascended]

Also, surprised that neither the comics nor any adaptations have ever really tried adapting the blue circuitry from the show. That was always one of my favorite design elements.

I feel like I've seen the blue circuits here and there, in a few panels now and then. Usually when Vic wasn't appearing regularly anywhere, and in big splash pages where Vic was just one of a multitude.

Maybe I'm thinking of some comic based on the cartoon, if such a thing exists, or an Elseworld or something I dunno, but I vaguely recall seeing it and thinking "more media synergy, wonder if they'll stick with it?"

But yeah, I've always wondered why the comics didn't pull more from that show. I've only ever seen an episode or two, but it was popular and seems to still be, and why the comics never tried to pull the good stuff from it is a mystery to me.

A small "7 of 9 " metallic piece above his right eye would be acceptable and satisfy people who want something on Vics face.

Some of y'all don't understand how marketing works, I think.

Reducing/adjusting the size/shape of the faceplate is fine, that happens all the time anyway to various degrees (sometimes covers his ears, sometimes his chin, sometimes not) and is no different from Superman or Batman making minor tweaks to their "S" and Bat emblems. But the best you can do to minimize the faceplate without damaging Vic's marketability is what Doom Patrol did; make it a cybernetic eye that covers the whole eye socket. And even that's a gamble, I dunno if I'd want to try that with a solo project but an ensemble would offer enough cushion to experiment with it, and hopefully build it up in Vic's public profile. As I've said, you can't remove the faceplate without first introducing and establishing another visual marker. Do that first, then you can get rid of the faceplate.

But what do I know, I only have a degree in business/marketing and years of experience helping people sell product and build up their brand recognition. Either way, I'm done with this particular topic, we've covered it before, would much rather discuss what folks are expecting and hoping for from the new series.

Me, I'm hoping to see some stuff from GO, honestly. Evil Dragon, Vic's love for 80's music....definitely some femme fatale stuff with Jinx. I'd like to see Gizmo built up as Vic's "Lex Luthor" too. Feels like the Titans are well beyond the Fearsome Five these days but I think they'd make a great threat for Vic's solo adventures.

[Customizer]

I've been around a while .....


Usually this is where the thread derails and ego fueled posts defending entrenched positions on comic book characters are spammed for pages on end.

I've been around a while .....

This is usually where i tell you what profitable businesses (multiple) i own , what my educational background is, *sigh* how many years i've designed and marketed prototypes in Solidworks, Z Brush and other CAD suites , how many rental properties i own and the last year another entity other than myself issued me a "paycheck" (a few US presidents back).


None of that has anything to do with this fictional character we all care for.

Instead ....lets just revisit this topic for the 13,000th time when the the new Cyborg series sales numbers are in on issue #24 if it makes it that far and see where we stand.

We are speaking about a beloved but failed Cyborg character (truly beloved based upon potential in my case). I'm a grown man with multiple toy representations of the character (store bought, digitally designed and custom built) and it definitely isn't because Cyborg has been shown in the best light or treated as a Mary Sue by editors or writers. If i wanted to follow the alleged ideal uber character... i wouldn't be in this thread.

Either the powers that be will *listen* to fans and slightly modify / tweak Cyborgs appearance for increased sales (namely removing the face plate) or they won't and we'll be back here with more gray hairs arguing about face plates, exposed skin and comic book genitals in a few years.


Just like the last time.

What's this ...round ...4 .... for this issue now since 2014/2015?

David Walker (who literally tweeted about DC editorial resistance to tweaking Cyborg and Cyborgs fairly high popularity at one point that DC failed to capitalize on)
Semper Jr.
Grevioux
Wolfman

[Customizer]

I agree. Or at the very least, giving him a jacket and a pair of pants alone would have cut some of the spending.

But noooo we had to see the CGI metal mess in it's full glory:



^How the hell does something from 2021 managed to look more outdated than something from 2003:



Even with the face plate, the 2003 design still looks fresh and modern.

Also, surprised that neither the comics nor any adaptations have ever really tried adapting the blue circuitry from the show. That was always one of my favorite design elements.

I actually like the Teen Titans Go design as well. It's not the ideal representation of Cyborg to me but it's fun and appealing short of the head design. I actually just recently stumbled across a 2003 design with Vics head sans faceplate or cybernetics. It worked well which surprised me.

[Alphaxman]

I'm one who HATES his TT go or animation look. I do agree that the "white" metallic look contrast his skin better than the gray steel designs some use, but I still think Reis's look for his solo series is Vic's best overall design.
The main issue I have is that we're in the 21 century with too many examples of cyborgs in fiction, form comics, to anime/Manga. With nano tech and synthetic tissues, and/or holographic, there is no reason Victor should be walking around "armored" up all the time. Maybe his more damaged parts of his body (his left side) could have some prostatic elements when he's "off the clock", only to activate his New God's level nano tech in full glory when it's time to put in work.
That could help take him away form that "Is he man or machine" troupe his been stuck in since his creation.

[Incognito]

I wished Cyborg has his DCYou look, with his powerset he is a utility player he could have multiple sets of looks/modes whether it is for stealth missions, shedding his techno-organic skin as Victor Stone for both reconnaissance or public purposes, a tank mode to match up to physical powerhouses or a protected form for defensive or environmental purposes.

[Ascended]

Either the powers that be will *listen* to fans and slightly modify / tweak Cyborgs appearance for increased sales (namely removing the face plate) or they won't and we'll be back here with more gray hairs arguing about face plates, exposed skin and comic book genitals in a few years.

I like to believe we're a more constant group than that, we'll be arguing over those things regardless of what DC does. And if you know your way around marketing, that's great. I'd be interested to hear what you'd do to push the character. But I take issue with the posters insinuating that those of us who "want" the faceplate to stick around are doing so because of racism. Don't take kindly to that.

And now we usually start theory-crafting a mythos, typically using bits and pieces from Vic-focused stories from the Titans days, the cartoon/s, and the handful of stuff the comics gave to Vic (like Grid).

....anyone ever wanna see the Technis return? I'd forgotten all about them until the other day, and I wonder what they're up to now. Also reminded me that the New52 wasn't the first time Vic had alien tech grafted to him, he had the Technis stuff, and that gold liquid metal mech thing that Vic fused with back in the....late 90's? Early 00's? Not sure if there were other times before the Mother Box?

I wished Cyborg has his DCYou look, with his powerset he is a utility player he could have multiple sets of looks/modes whether it is for stealth missions, shedding his techno-organic skin as Victor Stone for both reconnaissance or public purposes, a tank mode to match up to physical powerhouses or a protected form for defensive or environmental purposes.

I think that's the ideal right? Vic able to shift his form (more than he usually does, I mean) to deal with whatever's in front of him?

[Incognito]

I think that's the ideal right? Vic able to shift his form (more than he usually does, I mean) to deal with whatever's in front of him?

Yeah, IIRC he had an upgrade from some alien technology called the Technovore and it gave him a "human" form. Also, he should have tactical sensors so it allows him to feel human (I don't know if he has them).

I imagine that his cybernetic eye just sees, analyzes, and adapts to any situation by shifting forms when it comes to fighting villains or the environment he's in.

[marhawkman]

Yeah, IIRC he had an upgrade from some alien technology called the Technovore and it gave him a "human" form. Also, he should have tactical sensors so it allows him to feel human (I don't know if he has them).

I imagine that his cybernetic eye just sees, analyzes, and adapts to any situation by shifting forms when it comes to fighting villains or the environment he's in.

Yeah, it has been used for a lot of "super-vision" things over the years. also... Cyborg can modify his cybernetics. The old version was done kinda like gadgets he'd attach to USB-port like plugs. For the most common example: his sonic blaster weapon, it was not actually a permanent part of his hand. It was an attachment he normally wore on his belt.

[skyvolt2000]

I like to believe we're a more constant group than that, we'll be arguing over those things regardless of what DC does. And if you know your way around marketing, that's great. I'd be interested to hear what you'd do to push the character. But I take issue with the posters insinuating that those of us who "want" the faceplate to stick around are doing so because of racism. Don't take kindly to that.

It's just tends to be folks at various places that seem to have issues with POC doing anything. Along with those who think Cyborg has nothing but that look to him. Ignoring everything else about him. That he HAS to look that way because it's iconic while everyone else gets to change looks.

And if you know your way around marketing, that's great. I'd be interested to hear what you'd do to push the character.

1) No more man versus machine stories.

2) If he has all this tech let see it put to use.

3) No more getting hacked into by Joe Nobody.

4) No more getting torn apart by T'Challa's kinfolks.

5) Let him change looks. In term of business more looks more different version of action figures. What as Alias and The Pretender? Shows about folks who could be whatever they wanted. Lets see Cyborg do that.

6) Since he has a mother box-lets get some adventures with Exxy on other planets or realities. AKA Dr Who.

7) Since he is linked to Star Labs-let build up a supporting cast-I can dig up unused regular folks from other franchises to use for a cast (and leave the door open for others to guest star)

8) Get an editor who gives a BLEEP about Cyborg-no more Harvey Richard starter kits.

9) Get a writer who will WRITE about Cyborg and not self insert nonsense. No Cyborg fighting cops or the Klan. Right it should be about building up Cyborg not pandering to folks on Twitter that scream Cyborg is not black if he is not being written as everything bad that happens to black folks-happen to Cyborg.

10) Do not hire anyone who seems to hate being black or has issues with black men. See Black Panther since 2016.

[Ascended]

It's just tends to be folks at various places that seem to have issues with POC doing anything. Along with those who think Cyborg has nothing but that look to him. Ignoring everything else about him. That he HAS to look that way because it's iconic while everyone else gets to change looks.

I know there's folk out there who try to hide the racism behind excuses that, at least on the surface, look like they could be legit. But come on man, you and me been talking here for years and you *know* that's not me. And the thing with the faceplate, right now that's Vic's "S" Shield. That shield changes all the time, but it's always there. I have no issue removing Vic's plate, as long as DC has established a viable visual to replace it that they can lean on.

What I worry about is DC removing the damn thing, and people not recognizing him. Just like if you took away Clark's shield. Sure, the spit curl, red cape, and blue pajamas is gonna give you a real strong idea of who you're looking at....but without that shield, it doesn't look like Superman. I fear the same for Vic, and the rest of his look isn't nearly as easily identifiable as Clark's. And maybe that wouldn't be an issue, maybe I'm imagining a problem where there isn't one, but Vic's look and the details of his costume change with every single version across media and comics, but the faceplate is always there and often the only thing that prevents Vic from looking like a generic robot. Sometimes bigger (Snyder) sometimes smaller (Doom Patrol) but it's the only constant in his visual identity. Can you honestly blame me for wanting that to remain, so Vic can be instantly and easily recognizable? I want the man to sell units, not be passed over because people don't realize who they're looking at. Build him up first, then once he's got some traction and momentum, *then* remove it, I say.

1) No more man versus machine stories.

2) If he has all this tech let see it put to use.

3) No more getting hacked into by Joe Nobody.

4) No more getting torn apart by T'Challa's kinfolks.

5) Let him change looks. In term of business more looks more different version of action figures.

6) Since he has a mother box-lets get some adventures with Exxy on other planets or realities. AKA Dr Who.

Doubt anyone disagrees with any of that.

The ability to shift his form, especially, is something Vic fans seem to really, really want. Let the man be a bit of a Transformer, hell yeah.

7) Since he is linked to Star Labs-let build up a supporting cast-I can dig up unused regular folks from other franchises to use for a cast (and leave the door open for others to guest star)

Hm. Wonder if Caitlin Fairchild from Gen13 would be a good addition to a supporting cast......

8) Get an editor who gives a BLEEP about Cyborg-no more Harvey Richard starter kits.

This is the biggest gods damn thing. Beyond sick of DC sabotaging Vic by giving him to people who don't give a shit about him. How's he supposed to gain in profile and popularity and make DC money if they intentionally make him suck? But then, we've been saying this about all of the Titans for two decades so clearly DC isn't on the same page as the rest of us.

9) Get a writer who will WRITE about Cyborg and not self insert nonsense. No Cyborg fighting cops or the Klan. Right it should be about building up Cyborg not pandering to folks on Twitter that scream Cyborg is not black if he is not being written as everything bad that happens to black folks-happen to Cyborg.

I mean, I wouldn't mind *some* stories like that once in a while, but it absolutely shouldn't be the norm. Some characters work great when dealing with such social issues, like Luke Cage. But I think Vic is more like T'Challa in that his narrative should be aspirational in that "here's what we could be" kinda way, if that makes any sense? More "modern/Bronze Age Superman" and less "Golden Age social crusader Superman" I guess?

10) Do not hire anyone who seems to hate being black or has issues with black men. See Black Panther since 2016.

>sigh< I miss BP being on my pull list. I don't get how we went from Coates' disaster to this. Did the book sell really well in trade or something? What made Marvel think that doing more of the same with T'Challa is what we wanted? At least McKay seems to have a good handle on him, from what I'm hearing over on the Marvel boards. Really excited about that new Avengers book. Shame T'Challa won't be leading, but I'm cool with Carol running things.

[Thirteen]

Cartoon Cyborg is sleek and hightech looking.

Movie Cyborg looks like he was built ina cave with a box of scrap parts.

DCEU Cyborg at least gets an upgrade from looking Mother Box shard-y in the epilogue in some version of JUSTICE LEAGUE (SnyderCut?)

[Mantis-Ray]

It was a huge mistake to make his robot parts entirely CG.

Ran into exactly the same problems the Green Lantern movie did by also making Green Lantern's entirely CG including his mask.

[Ascended]

DCEU Cyborg at least gets an upgrade from looking Mother Box shard-y in the epilogue in some version of JUSTICE LEAGUE (SnyderCut?)

I think that's the theatrical cut. In Snyder's version Silas Stone dies before the final battle.

DCEU went way too far with the cybernetics. Vic had, what, part of an arm, part of a leg, most of his ribs, and that was it. It's way too much, he's not Robotman. Teen Titans GO is even worse, all Vic has left is part of his face. That doesn't bother me, as it's just a silly cartoon and not meant to be taken seriously on any level, but it still leans into a precedent that I'm not fond of. I dunno if the Titans cartoon from 03 handles Vic the same, my kids never watched that one.

I prefer Vic to have a roughly 50/50 split; half organic half bionic.