Why didn't the Jim Hammond "Human Torch" remain as popular as Namor?

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

That's the MC-Young for you. Wokes are ruining everything, replacing all our classic characters with those babyfaced twinks.

Lol ��. Blame Stan Lee back in the 70s.

[Reviresco]

Why didn't the Jim Hammond "Human Torch" remain as popular as Namor?

Johnny Storm. The same reason why Windows 98 isn't as popular as Windows 10. The company sunsets the older version and refuses to support it.

As others said, Namor is more popular because the company respected his uniqueness and his fans (including creators), and supported the character in the early days. People forget, that in the first year or so, Namor was actually the most well known character amongst comic fans. Everyone else (except Cap) was new.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Also, Namor's kinda a douche. Sadly, jerks stand out better than the average straight arrows

[shooshoomanjoe]

Well, for decades, the Vision was the Human Torch so how popular was Vision before Byrne 's retcon?

[ARkadelphia]

That's the MC-Young for you. Wokes are ruining everything, replacing all our classic characters with those babyfaced twinks.

MC Young

https://youtu.be/xy4FXhkm6Nw

[Lukmendes]

Wait a minute, is Namor popular?

"Popular" is a strong word, but a casual comic book reader may at least know him as "that Aquaman ripoff".

Of course, Aquaman is the one who ripped off a lot of stuff about Namor (And Namor was even the first one to be created to boot), but since Aquaman is the most known one, it's generally assumed to be the opposite.

I'd re-create Ultimate Earth for this very reason. Put Jim on that Earth along with Blue Marvel, Oshtur, Madelyne Pryor, Isaiah Bradley (Captain America), Miles Morales, the original Vision (Aarkus), Beta Ray Bill, the Mystery Men, the Squadron Sinister, some version of the X-Men lead by Mister Sinister and a few others.

That could be interesting, but too bad that after a while, even if it was popular, it would have 616's influence ruining what's unique about that universe to begin with, like what happened with Ultimate.

Well, that and, if it's really popular, it would have its interesting stuff bleed into 616, also removing what's unique about this universe, like it happened with Ultimate...

[Vegeta]

Hammond just wasn't as pushed by the publisher as the Fantastic Four (and by proxy Johnny Storm) was in the early days. Namor was also a more versatile supporting character than the Hammond Torch. He can be a heroic ally in one story working alongside the FF or Captain America, but he could also wage war on the land dwellers at the drop of a hat, beat up on Daredevil and has allied himself with Magneto and Dr. Doom several times. His honor, pride and hot tempered nature leant him better to a variety of stories.

[Digifiend]

I think it is simply because he wasn't used. The super hero stuff went away for a few years...then was brought back in the 60s. Cap showed up in The Avengers and Namor became and enemy of the FF but Jim was never really brought back in any meaningful way like those two.

This. After the mid 50s, the superhero line was completely scrapped. It only came back when Stan Lee decided to create a knock off of Challengers of the Unknown and Justice League. So he created the Fantastic Four, including a new Human Torch. Though he'd later bring back Namor and Captain America, the other two of Timely's 1940s big three, Jim was redundant, so he didn't come back until quite a bit later. I bet they realised that there was room for two Torches when the Justice League started doing their annual Justice Society team-ups - which of course included two different Flashes and Green Lanterns.

[ed2962]

This. After the mid 50s, the superhero line was completely scrapped. It only came back when Stan Lee decided to create a knock off of Challengers of the Unknown and Justice League. So he created the Fantastic Four, including a new Human Torch. Though he'd later bring back Namor and Captain America, the other two of Timely's 1940s big three, Jim was redundant, so he didn't come back until quite a bit later. I bet they realised that there was room for two Torches when the Justice League started doing their annual Justice Society team-ups - which of course included two different Flashes and Green Lanterns.

Possibly...plus Roy Thomas being a big Golden Age fan probably helped when they finally did bring Jim back in The Invaders, there's no way Roy didn't lobby hard for the team. I wouldn't shocked if Roy told Stan something like, the Johnny stories are in the present and Jim will be in the past, so there's no conflict.

[K7P5V]

Possibly...plus Roy Thomas being a big Golden Age fan probably helped when they finally did bring Jim back in The Invaders, there's no way Roy didn't lobby hard for the team. I wouldn't shocked if Roy told Stan something like, the Johnny stories are in the present and Jim will be in the past, so there's no conflict.

Truly commendable (IMHO):

[Doombot]

The Jim Hammond Torch didn't remain popular simply because Johnny Storm took his place. The "Human Torch" has stayed a popular comic book figure nearly as long as Namor has, Marvel simply switched out who he was. Namor was was brought over into the Silver Age Marvel books and so was Torch, just as Johnny Storm instead. Eventually they realized you didn't have to toss Hammond to the bin simply because Johnny was they new Torch, but at first I'm sure Lee was like "I have my Human Torch, we can't have two." Once the new Silver Age Vision was created it only exacerbated Jim Hammond's plight as a "replaced" hero. Johnny took his flames and Vision took his "synthetic man" origin.

I think there was really only a handful of people at Marvel, like Roy Thomas, Busiek and Alex Ross, who really made readers (and Marvel) remember what an amazing comic book character Hammond truly is and that he was just being left on the shelf.

[CaptCleghorn]

Marvel also brought back Jim and Toro for single issue death scenes. It was more than just ignoring it was saying "we know, but they're gone now".

[Brian B]

Marvel also brought back Jim and Toro for single issue death scenes. It was more than just ignoring it was saying "we know, but they're gone now".

…

There’s a story behind that FF annual, and it isn’t a pretty one.

[CaptCleghorn]

There’s a story behind that FF annual, and it isn’t a pretty one.

This is a brilliant example of "everybody loves sausages, but nobody wants to see how they're made".

[Brian B]

This is a brilliant example of "everybody loves sausages, but nobody wants to see how they're made".

I think Howe’s book is required reading for all Marvel fans. You’re right, too. All the creators’ rights issues involved in the founding and building of Marvel, and also DC, is terribly depressing to us fans who learn about these bad practices.