When did Parker start being written as kind?

[PCN24454]

he is nice to hulk at least

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Didn’t he try to beat the Hulk up in order to become an Avenger?

[Jman27]

Didn’t he try to beat the Hulk up in order to become an Avenger?

did he really what the hell was Peter thinking

[Lukmendes]

Didn’t he try to beat the Hulk up in order to become an Avenger?

did he really what the hell was Peter thinking

He did, and that was back when almost nobody knew what was Hulk's situation (He still had a secret identity), and Spidey learned of it on the same issue and decided to let him go:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...9600/image.png







(ASM Annual#2).

It's also worth pointing out the Avengers are the ones who sent him to go find the Hulk, and while they failed in telling Spidey that they want Hulk to be brought over to help him, it's still a colossal dick move to send anyone after the Hulk to bring him to the Avengers.

So yeah, Spidey is semi consistently nice to the Hulk, as long as Hulk isn't trying to squash him lol.

[ARkadelphia]

I saw on another board that early Parker was kind of an ass. Around what year did that characterization change to the very kind characterization most know him as?

After his Uncle Ben died

[Lukmendes]

After his Uncle Ben died

That's the popular idea that adaptations like to use, but he was still an ass here and there, and only really toned it down a while after he got in college (As that was when Ditko left).

I honestly prefer the way Ditko did it, it feels a lot more natural for him to not change that much as a person just because uncle Ben died, specially from a jerk to a saint in 5 minutes lol.

[Minerboh]

I feel like that’s a weak argument and honestly makes me question whether people actually care if Peter is a hero not.

What I said makes Peter a hero way more than his stunds as Spider-Man.
You have a kid that most of his school years were practically a living nightmare thanks to a dork, he aqcuires a set of magnificent powers including enchanced physical strength and he never used it to put that dork in it's place because he was afraid that he might cause him harm and you people tell me that he was acting like a jerk?
That same kid got ignored by many girls classmates because they couldn't see the inner beaty of his character just because they couldn't take their sight away from the dork we mentioned earlierand his impressive six pack and you call that kid a jerk?
Just because he spoke sarcastically to a few people (that frankly they had it coming from a mile away)?
That same kid tried his best to protect and care his aunt even when she was housing a wanted fugitive and we call him a jerk?
Unless you are reffering to Ultimate Peter, personally, I can say that Peter Parker never acted like a jerk even when the situation called for it.

[Minerboh]

Spidey is terrible at revenge then.

In some cases he did let frustation to take control but he regained it in time.

[PCN24454]

What I said makes Peter a hero way more than his stunds as Spider-Man.
You have a kid that most of his school years were practically a living nightmare thanks to a dork, he aqcuires a set of magnificent powers including enchanced physical strength and he never used it to put that dork in it's place because he was afraid that he might cause him harm and you people tell me that he was acting like a jerk?
That same kid got ignored by many girls classmates because they couldn't see the inner beaty of his character just because they couldn't take their sight away from the dork we mentioned earlierand his impressive six pack and you call that kid a jerk?
Just because he spoke sarcastically to a few people (that frankly they had it coming from a mile away)?
That same kid tried his best to protect and care his aunt even when she was housing a wanted fugitive and we call him a jerk?
Unless you are reffering to Ultimate Peter, personally, I can say that Peter Parker never acted like a jerk even when the situation called for it.

The way you said that made Peter sound like he was an entitled brat. People shouldn’t get a prize just for “not doing anything wrong”.

It makes it sound like he’s just looking for a reason to go off on someone.

[Minerboh]

The way you said that made Peter sound like he was an entitled brat. People shouldn’t get a prize just for “not doing anything wrong”.

It makes it sound like he’s just looking for a reason to go off on someone.

But Peter never went off and this is what matters at the end.
And why you think I presented Peter as an entitled brat is beyond me. I only stated I find the whole Peter acting as a jerk a bit unfair when his classmates were the jerks and the bullies. But if you like to think this is the case, feel free ... Just I am free to say it would be more appropiate to ask ''when Flash stopped acting like a jerk''.

[Huntsman Spider]

He did, and that was back when almost nobody knew what was Hulk's situation (He still had a secret identity), and Spidey learned of it on the same issue and decided to let him go:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...9600/image.png







(ASM Annual#2).

It's also worth pointing out the Avengers are the ones who sent him to go find the Hulk, and while they failed in telling Spidey that they want Hulk to be brought over to help him, it's still a colossal dick move to send anyone after the Hulk to bring him to the Avengers.

So yeah, Spidey is semi consistently nice to the Hulk, as long as Hulk isn't trying to squash him lol.

Yeah . . . this was quite the heartwarming moment in Spider-Man's relationship, such as it was, with the Hulk.

"He needs help --- not hatred . . . Understanding --- not punishment!" That line of thought from Spider-Man definitely sticks out for me, especially in light of historical and contemporary issues with how the legal system and law enforcement have functioned in practice. That said, I do appreciate how despite everything he's been through, one of his most consistent traits has always been his compassion for those in need and suffering, even if they happen to be his enemies or otherwise on the wrong side of the law. Granted, he can take it too far at times, to the point the 90s animated series had both Kingpin and Silvermane remarking at separate times on "compassion" as his chief weakness, but without compassion, where would he get off calling himself (or being called) a hero?

[Mister Mets]

That's the popular idea that adaptations like to use, but he was still an ass here and there, and only really toned it down a while after he got in college (As that was when Ditko left).

I honestly prefer the way Ditko did it, it feels a lot more natural for him to not change that much as a person just because uncle Ben died, specially from a jerk to a saint in 5 minutes lol.

It might really be the switch from Ditko to Romita.

We have the Hulk scene early in the Romita run. Peter also got closer to Harry when he visited Norman in the hospital (although that seemed to be a retcon in Spider-Man: Blue.) His decision to keep Norman's secret was a big deal.

[The Negative Zone]

He did, and that was back when almost nobody knew what was Hulk's situation (He still had a secret identity), and Spidey learned of it on the same issue and decided to let him go:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...9600/image.png







(ASM Annual#2).

It's also worth pointing out the Avengers are the ones who sent him to go find the Hulk, and while they failed in telling Spidey that they want Hulk to be brought over to help him, it's still a colossal dick move to send anyone after the Hulk to bring him to the Avengers.

So yeah, Spidey is semi consistently nice to the Hulk, as long as Hulk isn't trying to squash him lol.

I love this story. Spider-Man should have been an Avenger decades ago!

On the subject though, I feel like Peter's a jerk in guest stars, like in Avengers # 1 lol.

[Lukmendes]

Yeah . . . this was quite the heartwarming moment in Spider-Man's relationship, such as it was, with the Hulk.

"He needs help --- not hatred . . . Understanding --- not punishment!" That line of thought from Spider-Man definitely sticks out for me, especially in light of historical and contemporary issues with how the legal system and law enforcement have functioned in practice. That said, I do appreciate how despite everything he's been through, one of his most consistent traits has always been his compassion for those in need and suffering, even if they happen to be his enemies or otherwise on the wrong side of the law. Granted, he can take it too far at times, to the point the 90s animated series had both Kingpin and Silvermane remarking at separate times on "compassion" as his chief weakness, but without compassion, where would he get off calling himself (or being called) a hero?

Compassion is only really a weakness if you're an idiot about it.

Sometimes people need help, sometimes they shouldn't be getting it, it's all about making the smart choice of how and when the compassion is used.

Spidey is usually fine with it, while there are times he uses compassion at the wrong situation, or doesn't use compassion when it'd be the better choice, well, he's flawed, and he can't know everything.

It might really be the switch from Ditko to Romita.

It pretty much is lol.

We have the Hulk scene early in the Romita run. Peter also got closer to Harry when he visited Norman in the hospital (although that seemed to be a retcon in Spider-Man: Blue.) His decision to keep Norman's secret was a big deal.

A more minor one by comparison is in ASM#39, with him noticing that Harry is looking sad and asking him what's up, which considering that Harry had only been an ******* to him, he still decided to at least ask about it and try to comfort him:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...1469440454.jpg



This is even what made Flash tone down the jerk and for Gwen to actually try to talk with him too.

I love this story. Spider-Man should have been an Avenger decades ago!

It's pretty ridiculous the Avengers made an arbitrarily dumb test like this for Spidey to pass, when they allowed previous criminals like Hawkeye, Wanda and Pietro to join them no problem, and they even have someone like the Hulk as a founding member, and Hulk joining the team was basically him saying "Let me join or else" lol.

I don't necessarily think he should've been an Avenger, but stuff being set up for him to fail like that, yeah, stupid.

On the subject though, I feel like Peter's a jerk in guest stars, like in Avengers # 1 lol.

He wasn't in Avengers#1, do you mean #3?





Maybe it happened on a relaunch too...

Also I made a typo on the Hulk post, it happened in ASM Annual#3, not 2, Annual#2 was team up with Doctor Strange, written by Ditko even.

[TinkerSpider]

Compassion is only really a weakness if you're an idiot about it.

Sometimes people need help, sometimes they shouldn't be getting it, it's all about making the smart choice of how and when the compassion is used.

Spidey is usually fine with it, while there are times he uses compassion at the wrong situation, or doesn't use compassion when it'd be the better choice, well, he's flawed, and he can't know everything.

Most of the time Peter is written as compassionate but not as a patsy who just rolls over. His compassion is usually earned and justified (there's always the badly written story here or there).

But Wells has flanderized it.

[Lukmendes]

Most of the time Peter is written as compassionate but not as a patsy who just rolls over.

Wouldn't say "most of the time", since his default entrance to a battle is to make jokes, which can be irritating, and a case like Sundown in Untold Tales of Spider-Man#1997, it didn't help the guy's case at all, with Spidey later investigating and deciding to try helping him out.

So he did decide to help Sundown, but it wasn't the choice he defaulted to.

That being said, cases like Sundown are way more understandable, he did suddenly show up in New York screaming like a villain, so it'd be sillier to not default to trying to stop him.

His compassion is usually earned and justified (there's always the badly written story here or there).

Hence "he's usually fine with it".

Sometimes he ironically has a problem with not being compassionate enough even in well written stories.

DeMatteis' Child Within is an example of it, where he just doesn't care to help Vermin at first.

Can't think of a story with him being too compassionate that is well written though, Maximum Carnage is an example of how silly it can get, with Spidey saying Carnage is "the most innocent of us all".

But Wells has flanderized it.

Hm... You did point out Kraven's Last Hunt is a favorite story of his'.

I've had a discussion on 4chan where the other person indicated that Wells is likely trying to mimic DeMatteis' writing, which I can see that if that moment you told me about Spidey telling JJ "You fucked me over for years, but you had good reasons, so it's okay!" is true.

And if that's the case, problem is, while DeMatteis' Spidey is more compassionate and forgiving than usual, DeMatteis is smart enough to make sure he doesn't go too far, and that sometimes, Spidey gives the chance to someone who can't be helped, either because they don't want to be helped (Like Professor Power) or it's too late (Like Harry), that and DeMatteis actually understands Spidey's character.

So if this theory is correct, Wells is trying to copy DeMatteis' greatness, while either not understanding, and/or just failing at copying it, so we get this seemingly overly forgiving dumbass.