When did Parker start being written as kind?

[TinkerSpider]

Wouldn't say "most of the time", since his default entrance to a battle is to make jokes, which can be irritating, and a case like Sundown in Untold Tales of Spider-Man#1997, it didn't help the guy's case at all, with Spidey later investigating and deciding to try helping him out.

So he did decide to help Sundown, but it wasn't the choice he defaulted to.

That being said, cases like Sundown are way more understandable, he did suddenly show up in New York screaming like a villain, so it'd be sillier to not default to trying to stop him.

Eh, IMO there's a major difference between being compassionate (an empathetic reaction to someone in a bad situation not of their making or, if of their making, the circumstances are understandable) and fighting bad guys who are doing bad.

Hence "he's usually fine with it".

Sometimes he ironically has a problem with not being compassionate enough even in well written stories.

DeMatteis' Child Within is an example of it, where he just doesn't care to help Vermin at first.

Can't think of a story with him being too compassionate that is well written though, Maximum Carnage is an example of how silly it can get, with Spidey saying Carnage is "the most innocent of us all".

That's because being too compassionate breaks the reader's suspension of disbelief and turns the character into a cartoon. Exhibit A: the Wells run.

Hm... You did point out Kraven's Last Hunt is a favorite story of his'.

I've had a discussion on 4chan where the other person indicated that Wells is likely trying to mimic DeMatteis' writing, which I can see that if that moment you told me about Spidey telling JJ "You fucked me over for years, but you had good reasons, so it's okay!" is true.
And if that's the case, problem is, while DeMatteis' Spidey is more compassionate and forgiving than usual, DeMatteis is smart enough to make sure he doesn't go too far, and that sometimes, Spidey gives the chance to someone who can't be helped, either because they don't want to be helped (Like Professor Power) or it's too late (Like Harry), that and DeMatteis actually understands Spidey's character.

So if this theory is correct, Wells is trying to copy DeMatteis' greatness, while either not understanding, and/or just failing at copying it, so we get this seemingly overly forgiving dumbass.

I really hope he's not trying to mimic JMD. Because if he is...that's just sad, on so many levels.

[Lukmendes]

That's because being too compassionate breaks the reader's suspension of disbelief and turns the character into a cartoon. Exhibit A: the Wells run.

It depends, a character can be overly compassionate by nature, and that's about as immersion breaking as villains who are evil for the sake of it (Like say, 90% of Ditko's villains).

I'd say it's immersion breaking if a character who generally isn't like that, suddenly changes for that story, 'cause while Spidey is nice, he's also an emotional lil' bitch sometimes, he can be forgiving, but he also has things like bad mood and whatnot lol.

I really hope he's not trying to mimic JMD. Because if he is...that's just sad, on so many levels.

I think to an extent, trying to mimic him is fine, since DeMatteis does understand Spidey and his world a lot.

Problem is, if Wells is trying to do it, he really doesn't get it, 'cause his style trying to mimic DeMatteis' style is the equivalent of trying to start a fire with plastic, sand, and a bucket of water.

[PCN24454]

Bad mood is typically Peter’s default personality. Even his “compassion” is typically more him just not trying to cause problems rather genuinely caring for others most of the time.

It all depends on the tone of story the writer is trying to have. If it’s a grim tone, then Peter is typically uncaring. If it’s hopeful then Peter’ll perform random acts of kindness.

[Huntsman Spider]

Compassion is only really a weakness if you're an idiot about it.

Sometimes people need help, sometimes they shouldn't be getting it, it's all about making the smart choice of how and when the compassion is used.

Spidey is usually fine with it, while there are times he uses compassion at the wrong situation, or doesn't use compassion when it'd be the better choice, well, he's flawed, and he can't know everything.



It pretty much is lol.



A more minor one by comparison is in ASM#39, with him noticing that Harry is looking sad and asking him what's up, which considering that Harry had only been an ******* to him, he still decided to at least ask about it and try to comfort him:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...1469440454.jpg



This is even what made Flash tone down the jerk and for Gwen to actually try to talk with him too.



It's pretty ridiculous the Avengers made an arbitrarily dumb test like this for Spidey to pass, when they allowed previous criminals like Hawkeye, Wanda and Pietro to join them no problem, and they even have someone like the Hulk as a founding member, and Hulk joining the team was basically him saying "Let me join or else" lol.

I don't necessarily think he should've been an Avenger, but stuff being set up for him to fail like that, yeah, stupid.



He wasn't in Avengers#1, do you mean #3?





Maybe it happened on a relaunch too...

Also I made a typo on the Hulk post, it happened in ASM Annual#3, not 2, Annual#2 was team up with Doctor Strange, written by Ditko even.

Good points there, generally speaking. Also appreciated the turnaround in Peter's interactions with Harry and Flash (and Gwen) after Romita, Sr. started illustrating, as you showed here. As for the Avengers . . . well, kind of reminds me of how the Justice League over at DC thought they needed to test Black Lightning for membership. Funny how that works out, huh?

[The Negative Zone]

Compassion is only really a weakness if you're an idiot about it.

Sometimes people need help, sometimes they shouldn't be getting it, it's all about making the smart choice of how and when the compassion is used.

Spidey is usually fine with it, while there are times he uses compassion at the wrong situation, or doesn't use compassion when it'd be the better choice, well, he's flawed, and he can't know everything.



It pretty much is lol.



A more minor one by comparison is in ASM#39, with him noticing that Harry is looking sad and asking him what's up, which considering that Harry had only been an ******* to him, he still decided to at least ask about it and try to comfort him:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...1469440454.jpg



This is even what made Flash tone down the jerk and for Gwen to actually try to talk with him too.



It's pretty ridiculous the Avengers made an arbitrarily dumb test like this for Spidey to pass, when they allowed previous criminals like Hawkeye, Wanda and Pietro to join them no problem, and they even have someone like the Hulk as a founding member, and Hulk joining the team was basically him saying "Let me join or else" lol.

I don't necessarily think he should've been an Avenger, but stuff being set up for him to fail like that, yeah, stupid.



He wasn't in Avengers#1, do you mean #3?

Yeah, that's the issue I mean. 3. I remember this scene specifically.

[exile001]

Ditko-era Peter was literally a child, so he was prone to childish outbursts and stubbornness and generally being a bit of a moody jerk. He carries the weight of the world on his shoulders, the guilt of Uncle Ben's death and the responsibility towards his constantly half-dead mother figure. He is isolated and bullied at school and sees no end in sight. He is frankly a pretty shitty boyfriend to Betty. He's stuck in a miserable grind that keeps him focused on his problems in the immediate now.

Romita era is a young man and, on gaining the friendships of Harry, MJ, Gwen and Flash, he grows out of his sullen school days persona and becomes a more rounded, likable and happy person. He finally has freedom, his own place with Harry, May is usually stable, his love of Gwen so he's full of hope and dreams of the future.

I cannot tell you how much I relate to this, as it is the classic college story.

[Huntsman Spider]

Ditko-era Peter was literally a child, so he was prone to childish outbursts and stubbornness and generally being a bit of a moody jerk. He carries the weight of the world on his shoulders, the guilt of Uncle Ben's death and the responsibility towards his constantly half-dead mother figure. He is isolated and bullied at school and sees no end in sight. He is frankly a pretty shitty boyfriend to Betty. He's stuck in a miserable grind that keeps him focused on his problems in the immediate now.

Romita era is a young man and, on gaining the friendships of Harry, MJ, Gwen and Flash, he grows out of his sullen school days persona and becomes a more rounded, likable and happy person. He finally has freedom, his own place with Harry, May is usually stable, his love of Gwen so he's full of hope and dreams of the future.

I cannot tell you how much I relate to this, as it is the classic college story.

You actually sum it up quite well. Thanks. It makes perfect sense.

[babyblob]

Smells to me like character development .

Hey Hey. We dont want that kind of talk in a Spiderman thread!

[CaptainUniverse]

Hey Hey. We dont want that kind of talk in a Spiderman thread!

God forbid we have any form of character development in a Spider-Man book!

[babyblob]

If we are counting Captain Universe arc as character development then it is par to course for a Spiderman book. Around for a few issues then reverts back to the status quo and is never talked about again

[CaptainUniverse]

If we are counting Captain Universe arc as character development then it is par to course for a Spiderman book. Around for a few issues then reverts back to the status quo and is never talked about again

Awww...you didn't get the joke. Talk about a swing and a miss. Sigh...

[babyblob]

Awww...you didn't get the joke. Talk about a swing and a miss. Sigh...

I didnt. A lot of jokes go over my head. Sorry I messed up your moment

[Lukmendes]

Good points there, generally speaking. Also appreciated the turnaround in Peter's interactions with Harry and Flash (and Gwen) after Romita, Sr. started illustrating, as you showed here. As for the Avengers . . . well, kind of reminds me of how the Justice League over at DC thought they needed to test Black Lightning for membership. Funny how that works out, huh?

What issue was it? And did he at least pass the test? 'Cause if those super-hero teams only ever give out tests when a member is gonna fail, then they're gonna look like a bunch of elitist assholes.

In Conway's Justice League of America, on the story arc in issues#161~165, Zatanna joined the team, the way it happened was the League asking holding a vote, and asking her to join, and she accepted it (After a convoluted story arc where she had to lie because she was under a spell or somethin') lol.

Ditko-era Peter was literally a child, so he was prone to childish outbursts and stubbornness and generally being a bit of a moody jerk. He carries the weight of the world on his shoulders, the guilt of Uncle Ben's death and the responsibility towards his constantly half-dead mother figure. He is isolated and bullied at school and sees no end in sight. He is frankly a pretty shitty boyfriend to Betty. He's stuck in a miserable grind that keeps him focused on his problems in the immediate now.

Romita era is a young man and, on gaining the friendships of Harry, MJ, Gwen and Flash, he grows out of his sullen school days persona and becomes a more rounded, likable and happy person. He finally has freedom, his own place with Harry, May is usually stable, his love of Gwen so he's full of hope and dreams of the future.

I cannot tell you how much I relate to this, as it is the classic college story.

Funny how all of this was an accident lol.

Considering how jarringly Spidey suddenly becomes nicer, and once you know of the Marvel method where the artist is a writer too, Romita Spidey suddenly becoming nicer compared to how just a few issues ago he was still the same old, yeah... Yet, it works well enough 'cause people can grow, mature, and stop being little shits.

Awww...you didn't get the joke. Talk about a swing and a miss. Sigh...

I didn't get it either, but then again, I haven't read that what if where he kept the powers.

[exile001]

Funny how all of this was an accident lol.

Considering how jarringly Spidey suddenly becomes nicer, and once you know of the Marvel method where the artist is a writer too, Romita Spidey suddenly becoming nicer compared to how just a few issues ago he was still the same old, yeah... Yet, it works well enough 'cause people can grow, mature, and stop being little shits.

I do miss Peter's occasional random "**** it, time to go bully Human Torch" moments. Lol.