Paradise Lost: Amazons prequel series announced for HBO Max

[DisneyBoy]

Tbf, the Amazons and Greek gods offer a LOT more material to work with than pre-Batman Gotham

True, but if people like Gods and myths there's already...how many films and tv shows devoted that stuff? Off the top of my head: Percy Jackson, Shazam, Thor...

As has been stated, for this show to really make an impact and last more than one season, it'll have to be some of the BEST Gods and Monsters and Myths stuff ever. It's a crowded marketplace for Myths in general these days, since so many are public domain.

...and if they're going to have to go all-in on Gods and Monsters and Myths, then that likely means we'll be getting the (Uuuuuuugh!) Nu52 take on things, because making Diana siblings with all the Greek Gods means that their exploits leading up to her birth will have more weight.

I'm not saying that will 100% be a terrible show, but it's not the Wonder Woman content I want. It's too easy to make her a Hercules/demigod type. I like seeing Diana dealing with the Gods without being one of them. I like her human relationships and think they need more development beyond "I love Steve and Etta is my best friend".

And again, for this to be "Must See TV!" on an Amazon front, they're going to be hacking away at each other and arguing and fighting and I'm...just not down for that.

To summarize:

Gods who are Diana's relatives plotting before she's born + Amazons arguing and working against each other for the sake of drama + No Wonder Woman at all = Me, a sad fan.

Maybe that won't be the approach they take. We'll have to see. But Krypton was a hard sell for audiences because it wasn't really Superman at all. And it died after...two seasons? I see this being received similarly.

[Primal Slayer]

How many medical shows do we have? How many zombie shows do we have? How many superhero shows and movies that we have? How many crime shows that we have?

Let's not act like Gods and Monsters is a market that is oversaturated....its far from it. Shazam barely deals with greek gods. Thor has had 1 greek god in it. Percy Jackson is for kids.

[astro@work]

How many medical shows do we have? How many zombie shows do we have? How many superhero shows and movies that we have? How many crime shows that we have?

Let's not act like Gods and Monsters is a market that is oversaturated....its far from it. Shazam barely deals with greek gods. Thor has had 1 greek god in it. Percy Jackson is for kids.

Good point. If the story is well told, nobody will care how many other similar genre tales are sitting out there.

[SiegePerilous02]

True, but if people like Gods and myths there's already...how many films and tv shows devoted that stuff? Off the top of my head: Percy Jackson, Shazam, Thor...

As has been stated, for this show to really make an impact and last more than one season, it'll have to be some of the BEST Gods and Monsters and Myths stuff ever. It's a crowded marketplace for Myths in general these days, since so many are public domain.

...and if they're going to have to go all-in on Gods and Monsters and Myths, then that likely means we'll be getting the (Uuuuuuugh!) Nu52 take on things, because making Diana siblings with all the Greek Gods means that their exploits leading up to her birth will have more weight.

I'm not saying that will 100% be a terrible show, but it's not the Wonder Woman content I want. It's too easy to make her a Hercules/demigod type. I like seeing Diana dealing with the Gods without being one of them. I like her human relationships and think they need more development beyond "I love Steve and Etta is my best friend".

And again, for this to be "Must See TV!" on an Amazon front, they're going to be hacking away at each other and arguing and fighting and I'm...just not down for that.

To summarize:

Gods who are Diana's relatives plotting before she's born + Amazons arguing and working against each other for the sake of drama + No Wonder Woman at all = Me, a sad fan.

Maybe that won't be the approach they take. We'll have to see. But Krypton was a hard sell for audiences because it wasn't really Superman at all. And it died after...two seasons? I see this being received similarly.

We are not exactly saturated with Greek myth content, and that stuff is broadly appealing and popular among younger audiences. Leaning into it more would actually help Wonder Womans popularity.

And while the chance of pulling in influence from the New 52 is present, Historia is likely to be a source of influence for the Gods and Amazons as well, if not the more likely one as it (and it's Eisner wins) is more recent. Diana has never needed to be a daughter of Zeus to interact with the Gods, she did it all the way back in Marston's days, and Historia used the clay birth. Diana herself may not be a factor in this show.

In general I find some of the reactions to this show kind of odd. I get the disappointment of not having a new movie to go along with it or animated show (the latter is more unforgivable at this stage), but why are people acting like Hippolyta/the Amazons and Greek myth aren't huge parts of WW lore? From Perez to Historia, Hippolyta's saga is essential to setting up Diana's origin. You can't actually have Wonder Woman without any of this stuff.

[Phoenixx9]

It's probably not going to be WONDERful by any means, yet it might be enterainting. Like any movie or TV series, we have to wait to see what is presented to us.

[Primal Slayer]

In general I find some of the reactions to this show kind of odd. I get the disappointment of not having a new movie to go along with it or animated show (the latter is more unforgivable at this stage), but why are people acting like Hippolyta/the Amazons and Greek myth aren't huge parts of WW lore? From Perez to Historia, Hippolyta's saga is essential to setting up Diana's origin. You can't actually have Wonder Woman without any of this stuff.

The constant need to pick apart anything WW or related to WW can be tiring. This is a major win. It'll be on hbo/max, have an actual budget and not on The CW.

When we find out the creative team It'll be a potentially different story.

[SiegePerilous02]

The constant need to pick apart anything WW or related to WW can be tiring. This is a major win. It'll be on hbo/max, have an actual budget and not on The CW.

When we find out the creative team It'll be a potentially different story.

Especially as we know that the lack of a present day Diana is due to figuring out what to do with Gal, not a lack of plan/desire to use the character period.

This series even being a thing is a good indicator that her mythos is considered important to use.

[Gaius]

We are not exactly saturated with Greek myth content, and that stuff is broadly appealing and popular among younger audiences. Leaning into it more would actually help Wonder Womans popularity.

And while the chance of pulling in influence from the New 52 is present, Historia is likely to be a source of influence for the Gods and Amazons as well, if not the more likely one as it (and it's Eisner wins) is more recent. Diana has never needed to be a daughter of Zeus to interact with the Gods, she did it all the way back in Marston's days, and Historia used the clay birth. Diana herself may not be a factor in this show.

In general I find some of the reactions to this show kind of odd. I get the disappointment of not having a new movie to go along with it or animated show (the latter is more unforgivable at this stage), but why are people acting like Hippolyta/the Amazons and Greek myth aren't huge parts of WW lore? From Perez to Historia, Hippolyta's saga is essential to setting up Diana's origin. You can't actually have Wonder Woman without any of this stuff.

I have my reservations if only I'm worried of New 52 influence but yeah, not really getting why some act like the Hippolyta, the Amazons, or Gods haven't been involved in WW since...like day one? I get to an extent wanting original WW creations to shine but excluding the other stuff is ignoring a pretty basic appeal WW has.

Especially since Hippolyta is, debatably and depending on the era, the second most important character in the franchise?

[Sacred Knight]

While I would have preferred WW be part of the first slate, this show I think pretty much guarantees she'll be in the second. This show will likely heavily set up her arrival to the new movieverse.

[Largo161]

Maybe that won't be the approach they take. We'll have to see. But Krypton was a hard sell for audiences because it wasn't really Superman at all. And it died after...two seasons? I see this being received similarly.

I immediately envisioned Paradise Lost as a limited series. In other words, one season and we're out. The value of it would be in laying a compelling, firm foundation for Diana--not in running for multiple years.

It would only continue if it's a success beyond WB's wildest dreams.


Worries about Nu52 seem unfounded. Didn't Gunn just post about his enjoyment of Historia?

[PopQuezy]

This series even being a thing is a good indicator that her mythos is considered important to use.

I respectfully disagree with this. Superman gets a live-action film, and Supergirl gets a live-action film. Batman gets two movie franchises, and the Reeves Batman films still get spin-offs.

Wonder Woman can't even get a live-action film announced.

I don't really buy the "we need distance from Gal Gadot" reasoning. 2025 would already be 4 years between WW84 and whatever reboot they develop for Wonder Woman, since WW84 came out during Christmas 2020. According to most people, even some on this very board, WW84 was such a colossal failure that it destroyed the DCEU. Those aren't my words, but the words of someone else on this board. Why would there need to be space between such a failure and something that could potentially be successful? Especially in a time where we will have three Batman depictions on screen.

2025 could have had Wonder Woman in March, Superman in July, and Batman in October. Talk about building confidence in a new DCU movie verse and their Elseworlds division. Instead, we'll get an Amazons without Diana. We also don't know when Diana/Wonder Woman will be introduced into this new DCU, but at least we have The Authority and Booster Gold confirmed.

I genuinely see this as a step back. I am open to the Amazons show, but I can't be excited.

[SiegePerilous02]

I respectfully disagree with this. Superman gets a live-action film, and Supergirl gets a live-action film. Batman gets two movie franchises, and the Reeves Batman films still get spin-offs.

Wonder Woman can't even get a live-action film announced.

I don't really buy the "we need distance from Gal Gadot" reasoning. 2025 would already be 4 years between WW84 and whatever reboot they develop for Wonder Woman, since WW84 came out during Christmas 2020. According to most people, even some on this very board, WW84 was such a colossal failure that it destroyed the DCEU. Those aren't my words, but the words of someone else on this board. Why would there need to be space between such a failure and something that could potentially be successful? Especially in a time where we will have three Batman depictions on screen.

2025 could have had Wonder Woman in March, Superman in July, and Batman in October. Talk about building confidence in a new DCU movie verse and their Elseworlds division. Instead, we'll get an Amazons without Diana. We also don't know when Diana/Wonder Woman will be introduced into this new DCU, but at least we have The Authority and Booster Gold confirmed.

I genuinely see this as a step back. I am open to the Amazons show, but I can't be excited.

Superman's last solo movie was pretty much a decade ago, played by an actor that wasn't as beloved in the part as Gadot with Wonder Woman. Cavill is also now firmly out the door.

Exceptions are always made for Batman. He's their big bread winner. It sucks and I don't like it any more than most fans on here do, but it is what it is. They are more willing to have multiple versions of him than other characters. Especially as there is now a distinction between the versions (solo, grounded and gritty Batman vs. Bat-dad with family and less realistic) that we don't get with Superman or Wonder Woman

WW84 sucked, but Gal is still popular in the role, abd they have their pre-existing film slate that they need to shuffle out to die hopefully quick deaths, abd she has cameos in them. They can't cut what momentum they can get out of those appearances by announcing a new WW actress, and she and them don't even seem to know if they want her to be the primary Wonder Woman going forward or not whereas they know for sure with Batman what they want to do.

It's probably best not to announce a WW film while they don't have their house in order with her. That's not going to lead to anything good. DC/WB taking SOME time should be somewhat of a relief

[PopQuezy]

Superman's last solo movie was pretty much a decade ago, played by an actor that wasn't as beloved in the part as Gadot with Wonder Woman. Cavill is also now firmly out the door.

Exceptions are always made for Batman. He's their big bread winner. It sucks and I don't like it any more than most fans on here do, but it is what it is. They are more willing to have multiple versions of him than other characters. Especially as there is now a distinction between the versions (solo, grounded and gritty Batman vs. Bat-dad with family and less realistic) that we don't get with Superman or Wonder Woman

WW84 sucked, but Gal is still popular in the role, abd they have their pre-existing film slate that they need to shuffle out to die hopefully quick deaths, abd she has cameos in them. They can't cut what momentum they can get out of those appearances by announcing a new WW actress, and she and them don't even seem to know if they want her to be the primary Wonder Woman going forward or not whereas they know for sure with Batman what they want to do.

It's probably best not to announce a WW film while they don't have their house in order with her. That's not going to lead to anything good. DC/WB taking SOME time should be somewhat of a relief

Thank you for your perspective. I think I would feel better if we at least had a Wonder Woman animated series. I like the Wonder Woman mythos, but I am a Wonder Woman character fan, first and foremost. For the Amazons show to be worthwhile for me, I need a Wonder Woman to anchor that side of the universe.

I'm also concerned about who Gunn would put in charge of such a show. I know a lot of people disliked WW84, but I thought it was clear how much Patty loved and admired Wonder Woman, regardless of the movie's shortfalls. I don't trust Gunn enough to put someone who loves Wonder Woman in charge of this show. Obviously, time will tell. It's just deflating for me to not have any Wonder Woman content to look forward to right now. I hope we get information on the video game and this show to help me feel excited. Right now, I just feel whelmed as a Wonder Woman fan.

[Agent Z]

Thank you for your perspective. I think I would feel better if we at least had a Wonder Woman animated series. I like the Wonder Woman mythos, but I am a Wonder Woman character fan, first and foremost. For the Amazons show to be worthwhile for me, I need a Wonder Woman to anchor that side of the universe.

I'm also concerned about who Gunn would put in charge of such a show. I know a lot of people disliked WW84, but I thought it was clear how much Patty loved and admired Wonder Woman, regardless of the movie's shortfalls. I don't trust Gunn enough to put someone who loves Wonder Woman in charge of this show. Obviously, time will tell. It's just deflating for me to not have any Wonder Woman content to look forward to right now. I hope we get information on the video game and this show to help me feel excited. Right now, I just feel whelmed as a Wonder Woman fan.

Liking a character and being able to make a good story about them are two different things. Jenkins did the latter with the first movie but it seems she was little too busy with the former with the second.

[SiegePerilous02]

Thank you for your perspective. I think I would feel better if we at least had a Wonder Woman animated series. I like the Wonder Woman mythos, but I am a Wonder Woman character fan, first and foremost. For the Amazons show to be worthwhile for me, I need a Wonder Woman to anchor that side of the universe.

I'm also concerned about who Gunn would put in charge of such a show. I know a lot of people disliked WW84, but I thought it was clear how much Patty loved and admired Wonder Woman, regardless of the movie's shortfalls. I don't trust Gunn enough to put someone who loves Wonder Woman in charge of this show. Obviously, time will tell. It's just deflating for me to not have any Wonder Woman content to look forward to right now. I hope we get information on the video game and this show to help me feel excited. Right now, I just feel whelmed as a Wonder Woman fan.

I do agree that an animated series would be have been great, and LOOOOOONG overdue. For me, a good serialized cartoon is often better than the movies. I think if we had that to go along with the video game and Amazon show, we'd be sitting pretty good until the movie came out.

As for the Amazons, Hippolyta and the Amazons need to have their story told without Diana overshadowing them. They can certainly carry one for at least a season or two, and Hippolyta having her own saga before Diana's birth is essential. And they wouldn't be doing an Amazon show if there were no plans to have the Wonder Woman character.

Patty loved the character, but some of her storytelling instincts weren't that good (much more so in the second film than the first). And Geoff Johns was one of the previous people in charge, and Gunn's track record is unknown vs. Johns being largely terrible. I am tentative as well since I don't know what Gunn will do, but his reading and liking Historia is at least something.